So I'm gonna clean the carbs

[SkiDad]

I have a 1985 Force 125 and the carbs to my knowledge have never been cleaned. The starting issue when warm is getting worse so I thought I have to bite the bullet.

I'm going to get new bowl gaskets . Seems that the needles and seats are not available except in a kit - do you think I should get those ? the kits are pricey!

I'm gonna clean the jets and i will check the float levels too - any other suggestions ?

PS - my carbs are: 589061-1

 

[Simple_Man]

Hi Jerry

On my 85HP I cleaned the carbs, but my hard start issues didn't go away untill I replaced the needles and seats. In my opinion the kits are worth it.

 

[Jiggz]

Are you using BUHW NGK plugs already? If not I would try that route first and see if things will improve. It's about a $12 troubleshooting. If not then you can go with your carb cleaning strategy.

 

[SkiDad]

I'm using BUHX - they are about 5 years old - thought about replacing them but not sure if it will help as they run fine otherwise. is the BUHW hotter ?

 

[Jiggz]

The main difference between the BUHX and BUHW is the wider gap on the BUHW. Otherwise, they are identical including heat range.

 

[jerryjerry05]

​Jiggz post a pic of the plugs if you can.
These gapless plugs last a real long time.
I had mine in and didn't change them for probably 10 years??
I only changed them from feeling guilty??

Pull them and see if they are all burning the same?
Wire brush the top and clean out the area around the electrode.

What if anything have you done to the motor in the last few years??

​My carbs haven't been cleaned in, well forever.
99% of the time the only parts you need is a bottle of Dawn and maybe at the most a can of carb cleaner.
You usually only need to replace the needle as the tip has gotten deformed.
By all means go ahead and check them.

One trick is spray the bowl gaskets with WD or any silicone spray.
That way you don't need to replace them.

I use Dawn and dry with compressed air and spray the gasket with WD.
Don't use WD after the initial cleaning on anything but the gasket.
WD actually gums up the insides and takes a while to burn off.

Do a compression and spark test when warm.
What's the idle when cold and warm in the water and in N and in gear.

The fuel recirc system might need service.

 

[Jiggz]

Oh another difference beside the gap is the center electrode material. The HX uses Nickel while the HW uses Tungsten. As for the gap, the HX has 0.030" while the HW has the 0.050". Here's the specs from NGK:
https://www.ngk.com/product.aspx?zpid=9590

https://www.ngk.com/product.aspx?zpid=9592

Just click on the spec tab to see it.

I guess with a little wider gap comes a larger spark. This is probably the reason I find them to perform better. Obviously tungsten is harder than nickel which would mean it lasts longer. Otherwise, both are identical.

 

[SkiDad]

I screwed up - i cleaned the carbs but got carb cleaner happy - i screwed up one or both of the seats - it swelled up. I just thought it was brass in there didn't realize there was any rubber. :facepalm: :facepalm: My needles are all metal but there is a yellow rubber seat.

i got one of the oring out of the seat - looks to be a green oring - does anyone know what part number this is ? And how do i put the new one in ?






PS - thanks for all the other info on plugs. And the trick about the gaskets.

 

[SkiDad]

here is the o-ring i picked out of one carb. Maybe it was already deteriorating... I'm probably gonna replace both. Seems I just need these o-rings if i can figure out where to get some.

 

[jerryjerry05]

Too bad you picked out the O-ring.
​The swelling would have gone away after setting

The seats are not removable.

I'd try Granger for the O-ring
Or.
FK10120-1 Is a repair kit it shows it has the 0-ring
On e-bay

The only thing is the kit is for an 85hp and comes with 3 kits??
I imagine they are the same things you need??

 

[SkiDad]

You are right. The one I left went back to normal. The one I picked looked puckered or cracked but maybe it was just that swelled. I feel stupid.

Thanks for that part number. I guess I can take a chance on the o-rings that come with it.

I've also emailed Franz Marine to see if the have anything laying around.

I guess if worse comes to worse I can pick up some used carbs. if I do, is there any advantage to going with 120 carbs ?

 

[jerryjerry05]

Probably the same thing or real close.
​You need to measure the throat where they mount.
They need to be the same size.

Lots on sale on e-bay.
Just make sure it's set up for your motor.
Some use a primer and some the old style choke.
A set on E-bay right now. 291800049430

 

[SkiDad]

so i bought a few different kits with some seats - this is one of them: http://www.ebay.com/itm/401140740222

also see this picture for better view. The old seat was just sitting in there - do you think i need to glue the seat in ? the kits I bought had a little ring that seem to hold it in ,but the old seats did not have this. I don't know if they were originally glued in and the carb cleaner got rid of that. I have't received my parts yet, just trying to prepare so I can get back to skiing

 

[Simple_Man]

NO just be sure to push it in square. I got it started, and then used the back side of a drill bit to set it to the bottom.

and make sure you put the correct side facing out. but i forget which that is.

 

[SkiDad]

It wasn't pretty but I got one of the seals in there. The red ones came today and I got impatient. It was hard to shove it in there so I left the other carb alone. Anyhow I reset my float level and checked them for sealing properly. I put it back together and it fired up very quickly. Glad to be running again. Thanks Jerry for tip on part number. That was huge.

Thanks for the other tips guys. I post back after I ski tomorrow or Saturday.

 

[Simple_Man]

Yeah the ones for my 85hp were a pain in the ______!! too

 

[jerryjerry05]

No thanks needed.
Just a check for the retirement fund!!!

I enjoy this.

 

[SkiDad]

So i have run the boat a few times since I got the carbs back on. Seems to start even quicker on cold start. It runs very good except for idle / warm start. I had to turn my idle up 1/2 turn just to keep it from stalling (which seems weird to me)

So i bought some BUKW plugs (the ones I had in were BUHX and 5 years old) anyhow - seems to run fine but no real difference for the issues I have been having.

my issue is that the rpm will vary on each start - usually not high enough - then it will work it's way to to 1000 or 1100. Then sometimes it will drop down to 800 rpm in neutral. Sometimes it takes 2 or 3 starts when warm.

floats are right, carbs are clean, link and sync is right - i'm not sure what do try next ??

 

[Jiggz]

I wonder if you have some kind of exhaust leak? Have you tried running it without the top cowling just to see if the problem persists? If problem goes away this is an indication you have some exhaust leak getting into the cowling. Another indication of exhaust leak is irregular idle rpm when the LU is under water but steady when on muffs.

 

[jerryjerry05]

Possible the fuel recirc system is clogged?
​Under the dog bones on the fuel pump side.
There are reeds and screens that can clog with carbon and restrict fuel returning to the system.
It can affect the idle.

​The screens are NLA but not really needed.