Solder and heat shrink vs. crimp and tape

[Benny67]

If you use a butt connector and solder it or crimp it, that's just the mechanical attachment aspect. The water getting in is a completely different aspect and wire will corrode whether you use solder or crimp. Water travels under the insulation and travels down the wire. The corrosion aspect is how you seal the connection...not if you solder or crimp.

True...however, a soldered connection will far outlive a mechanical crimp in the same conditions..either one will still allow moisture to wick up the wire.

you wanna get real crazy you can remove the colored insulation on the lug and solder the crimp on the wire and seal it with epoxy shrink tube.

Did that on a product here at work that was exposed to some real damp conditions...worked out well.

 

[bruceb58]

Every single company I have worked for, including military, uses no soldered connections involving wires unless its in test equipment that doesn't get vibrated. This includes missiles, autos, cellular bases stations and Ethernet test equipment. Only time soldered connections get used in is non deliverable prototypes.

 

[jimmbo]

Most people don't know how to solder correctly, but the ones that do often use more solder than is needed to do the job. If it is wicking up the wire more than the dia. of the gauge of the wire, you are definitely using too much. Using a too small of an iron is often the reason for poor joints. Also any movement what so ever of the joint before it solidifies will always result in a cold joint. Heat shrink is a good idea, however silicone does contain Acetic Acid, which is mildly corrosive.

 

[bruceb58]

This subject always gets hashed over again and again. Most people don't crimp because they never used a good quality crimper and their crimps failed so they revert to solder. Solder is easier for the non technical person. I solder a lot of butt connections where it's not critical like a trailer. Anything that connects electronics or engine related wiring always gets crimped.

I know a lot of people that build experimental home built aircraft and I am thinking of build my own airplane as well. Soldering things is generally frowned upon for most wiring.

 

[gm280]

Every single company I have worked for, including military, uses no soldered connections involving wires unless its in test equipment that doesn't get vibrated. This includes missiles, autos, cellular bases stations and Ethernet test equipment. Only time soldered connections get used in is non deliverable prototypes.

bruceb58, I have no idea where you worked or what systems you worked on, but in my early days in DEPOT repair, I worked on APQ122, APN150, AN69, APN155 and also F4, B52, C130, C17, C5 and so many other systems that did use lots of soldered wire on them. Some were Airborne RADAR systems, some were Airborne Station Keeping Systems, Some were Low Altitude Ground RADAR Systems and lots of others as well. But all of them had single stranded insulated soldered wires on them. So you may not have wired things that way, but others certainly have. And it isn't unusual either. So if you decide to not solder wires for any connection on your own personal equipment, then have at it. But it is a totally quality type acceptable proven method to connect wires even in high stress and certainly high vibration situations. JMHO

 

[bruceb58]

F15 , F18, F22 radar systems, P3 and GlobalHawk SAR systems. AIM-120 missiles.

People are going to do what they are comfortable with. For a trailer it doesn't matter what kind of butt joints you do.

 

[gm280]

F15 , F18, F22 radar systems, P3 and GlobalHawk SAR systems. AIM-120 missiles.

People are going to do what they are comfortable with. For a trailer it doesn't matter what kind of butt joints you do.

bruce where did you work on the F15 at? The base here where I live is the repair station for F15's and my younger son repaired them for years. He has since moved to a different Engineering position.

 

[bruceb58]

bruce where did you work on the F15 at? The base here where I live is the repair station for F15's and my younger son repaired them for years. He has since moved to a different Engineering position.

Designed and built by Hughes Aircraft. I worked for the missile division but we had some cross work with the radar group at that time. F15 was actually pretty old tech by the time I started working although they continually make upgrades.

One of our tests for the AIM-120 missile was the F15 vibe test. No soldered wire connection could survive this test. We had capacitors on circuit boards vibrate loose from that test.

Those were the old days..so glad I don't work on defense projects anymore...boring...slow...wasteful.

 

[mjf55]

The nylon insulated types do not work. Corrosion will set in. I just rewired my boat mainly because of these type connections. ( and lack of using marine grade wire ). Heat shrink adhesive crimp connectors is the way to go.
Read this : http://www.pbase.com/mainecruising/wire_termination

 

[gm280]

Designed and built by Hughes Aircraft. I worked for the missile division but we had some cross work with the radar group at that time. F15 was actually pretty old tech by the time I started working although they continually make upgrades.

One of our tests for the AIM-120 missile was the F15 vibe test. No soldered wire connection could survive this test. We had capacitors on circuit boards vibrate loose from that test.

Those were the old days..so glad I don't work on defense projects anymore...boring...slow...wasteful.

Once I moved from DEPOT repair decades ago now, I went into Software Engineering and Computer Programing office and was assigned to a unique group that took old systems from all types of aircraft and we reversed engineered them with new modern technology. And since so many used relays, we replace everything with solid state devices. I loved that Engineer job. Designed many circuit that are in use today. So when you hear or see any aircraft flying over, run for cover... ound:

As for soldering wires, everybody will do what they like and forget about it. So it is what it is. We all have our ways. :deadhorse:

 

[bruceb58]

The nylon insulated types do not work. Corrosion will set in. I just rewired my boat mainly because of these type connections. ( and lack of using marine grade wire ). Heat shrink adhesive crimp connectors is the way to go.
Read this : http://www.pbase.com/mainecruising/wire_termination

Awesome Awesome Link!

I like how he stated to throw the Harbor Freight Insulated crimp connectors in the trash. I completely agree.

He addresses the "solder vs crimp" on page 5 with a quote from AMP
http://www.pbase.com/mainecruising/wire_termination&page=5

 

[mjf55]

Maine Sail does some excellent work. While sailing based, most of his work can easily apply to power .

 

[Baylinerchuck]

Excellent posts and link guys....who da thunk a conversation on solder vs. crimp would draw so much attention. In the MIL spec work that I have done, the crimpers we used were calibrated and tested daily, as were the wire tie guns believe it or not. No longer having acces to those certified crimpers, I have to say I'm partial to my Weller, sponge, and solder, (sarcasm implied)!! Happy boating y'all!!

 

[Benny67]

One of our tests for the AIM-120 missile was the F15 vibe test. No soldered wire connection could survive this test. .

?

I gotta ask, what type of crimp vs what type of soldered connection are we talking about here?

wire with a crimped lug attaching to a screw down type of connector or soldered wires to an edge card type of connector?

I could see if you were talking about soldered thru hole wire to a stationary object then yes, it would be better than that but to make a blanket statement like "no soldered wire could survive this test" makes no sense. It sounds as if you are saying that a mechanical crimp is just plain better than a soldered type connection..I fail to see how that is true

 

[bruceb58]

I gotta ask, what type of crimp vs what type of soldered connection are we talking about here?

Typically it's wire connections to connectors where you have a soldered cup vs a crimped pin that gets inserted into a connector.

It sounds as if you are saying that a mechanical crimp is just plain better than a soldered type connection..I fail to see how that is true

That's what I am saying. Read the link that mjf55 posted especially page 5 with the quote from an AMP engineer.

Now I have to ask...are you an electrical or mechanical engineer?

 

[Benny67]

That's what I am saying. Read the link that mjf55 posted especially page 5 with the quote from an AMP engineer.

Ehh...he's got a product to push..of course he's gonna claim that.

I won't crap on AMP...they make a fine product...everything that has it's name on I have no issue using. Although I'm not a big fan of those gun type PCB connectors they make. You need to be real careful on assembling those and i've seen a number of those fail on various products that we use them on at my job.

A connection with a "soldered cup" vs an amp style (or molex...my favorite) will break off much faster in the situation you are discribing...so I agree with where you are coming from on that aspect.

My argument about this whole topic is a mechanical connection...no matter how well done and done with the proper crimp toll and a good quality lug will NOT have the same conductivity over time as two wires properly twisted, soldered and shrinktubed.

This being butt type connectors were debating here...I got off topic...that's where this started, isn't it?

 

[Benny67]

Now I have to ask...are you an electrical or mechanical engineer?

Electro Mechanical...Industrial Electronics.

Never "officially" finished my EE degree...but work in the capacity as an Electro Mechanical/Prototype/product devlelopment/Assembly Supervisor for an Industrial Electronics manufacturing company. Have so for almost 30 years now. I wear about 4 different hats here.

We are no IBM but we are the leader in our field...USA we are about 40 employee's strong.

It pays the bills...

 

[joetheis]

This is just one "refined" guys thoughts...............
I've been spinning wrenches, doing wiring on just about EVERYTHING for more than 50 years.
In that time I've seen quite a few crimp connections fail, (you know, pull the crimp or butt connector off and the wire is got a nice coating of corrosion on it), some still working and you scratch your head and wonder.........
To date, I've never seem a soldered wire connection break, but, hey............
I've used both and if I REALLY want it to last then I solder, liquid tape and slice a shrink wrap over it.
Joe
Take any advice or ideas I give with a can of beer er 2!

 

[Benny67]

Joetheis,

Well put..

What it comes down to is..different applications for different situations.

 

[Benny67]

Can't make this stuff up...

Just having a look at a repair here at my job and low and behold...a broken AMP crimp