Sorry but another VRO questions

[River Rider]

I have aquired a 1989 70 horse evinrude with the VRO 2. The motor started right up when I got it home and ran. I turned it off and did some compression tests and routine matentaince to check out the motor before I would mount it to my boat. After Compression testing I found the cylinders from top to bottom to be 110 115 120. I knew these were a little low so I was wondering if the walls wore scored because of the VRO malfunctioning. This Brought me to check out the VRO pump. I went through the troubleshooting on it to test that the alarm was indeed working as it never went off in the initial trial start. That is when I found that no alarm would go off no matter what I did. I guess my question is where is the alarm supposed to emitt from and can it be replaced? I didn't know if it would sound from the motor or if it would come from the factory control box that came with it. Any help is greatly appreciated and sorry be beating a dead horse so to say on this topic.

 

[wilde1j]

Re: Sorry but another VRO questions

Horn is typically inside the controller, or can be separate.

 

[hidef]

Re: Sorry but another VRO questions

Your warning horn is in the controls. See item number 4.

http://www.marineengine.com/parts/j...M&manufacturer=Johnson&section=Remote+Control

 

[River Rider]

Re: Sorry but another VRO questions

That is what I thought. When I turned the key on I could here some static sounds in the control box like it was the alarm, but it was never loud enough for me to be sure it wasn't something else. I guess my question now is there a way I can use this motor without having to use the control? Basically I have a center console with a binacle mount control that doesn't have a alarm built in it, and would like to keep using it. Can I put an alarm elsewhere?

 

[hidef]

Re: Sorry but another VRO questions

Yes you can. You will have to pull the wiring the harness out of the OMC controls and mount the switch in the console if you are using your old controls anyways.

 

[River Rider]

Re: Sorry but another VRO questions

This may be a dumb question but is there way to just wire the alarm to my horn? Rather then pay $80 for a little alarm? Just thought I would ask.

 

[hidef]

Re: Sorry but another VRO questions

I don't know if there is or not. Have you opened up the controls and made sure the alarm is hooked up. It is not uncommon for people to disconnect them. I know the price is ridiculous for the horn and there are numerous posts about it. Unfortunately that is the way of most outboard parts.

 

[River Rider]

Re: Sorry but another VRO questions

No sir I have not tore into the controls yet. I was hoping to take the 78 model 70 horse I have on my boat now and swap it with the 89 70 evinrude that I bought on the bass boat. I guess I will open up the controls tonight and see what I find on the horn. I want to say it is hooked up because as I said I thought I could hear a faint static sound as if it was wanting to beep at start up like it is supposed to. Yeah it is just crazy sometimes how much things cost. I am a victim of your quote. I wanted to go faster so I am paying the price. I will get back to you after I look into it tonight. Thanks.

 

[hidef]

Re: Sorry but another VRO questions

You have to open them up anyways because I believe you will need that harness for the 89 if you want the horn. You will have to transfer that to your boat. However you can then rewire the 89 controls with the 78 wiring harness.

 

[Mark42]

Re: Sorry but another VRO questions

I doubt the short amount of time you ran the motor would score the cylinders. Did you run it on pre mix? Was the vro pump connected to the oil tank? Did you purge the oil line of air and run premix like the instructions dictate when reconnecting a disconnected oil line? These are all things you need to check before running it again.

Regarding the horn, there should be a low oil level warning (check the float in the oil tank to be sure its working correctly, and also install a new "sock" filter in the oil tank), and a no-oil pumping warning from the vro itsself. Both will put +12 into a wire going to the horn in the control box (or they ground the +12v from the horn, I forget which way it works). The horn is a fairly low watt unit, but you can just attach a typical 12v relay from radio shack in place of the horn in the control box and make that run your boat horn or a car horn if you like. A lot cheaper than the $80 OEM horn, and louder too.

 

[River Rider]

Re: Sorry but another VRO questions

Ok well the alarm is out of service. It just make crackling noises. So I guess I need to figure out if I want to take the time and money to fix the VRO or just pre mix. As for if the cylinders are scored I know for a fact the top two cylinders are. I am going to have to try and tackle a tear down on the block to get it to where I need it. Thanks for the help I am sure I will need some help with the tear down.

 

[twostroke87]

Re: Sorry but another VRO questions

well regardless of whether or not you decide to pre-mix or not, that horn in the control box also beeps for the overheat alarm, so if that alarm in the box is shot, that means you won't get an alarm when you overheat it. That's just asking for a future headache.

Go out and buy the horn, the money you spend on it is nothing compared to the damage done from cooking an engine like a pig over a fire.

 

[River Rider]

Re: Sorry but another VRO questions

Ok guys. I have a new controls alarm but after hooking it up when I turn the key on it just makes a constant alarm sound. No Pulses or just a short beep. It is a steady annoying horn. My question is this because there is a crossed wire or a grounded wire? I have never ran this motor on a boat in water but on muffs it seem to run fine. But since I never had the alarm I don't know where to start now. Any help is greatly appreciated.

 

[Mark42]

Re: Sorry but another VRO questions

The warning horn is triggered by grounding the circuit at a sensor (like temp) or low oil conditions in the VRO tank. The horn gets 12V when the ignition is turned on, and the ground side of the horn is connected to the temp sensor (not sender for temp gauge), and the wires on the vro tank and the VRo pump itsself (if I remember correctly).

Check the following:

- Disconnect the cylinder head temperature sender and turn on ignition. If the horn does not sound, the temp sensor is bad and needs to be replaced.

- Be sure there is sufficent oil in the VRO tank. If its low, fill the tank half way or more, and turn on the ignition.

- Check the wiring on the VRO tank. There is a float in the tank that completes the circuit (to ground) when the oil is getting low and sounds the horn. Disconnect the wire to the tank (usually two black wires that look like black lamp zip cord) and test. If the horn does not sound, the problem is either a shorted wire, or the float has a problem. Remove the 4 screws on the top of the tank and remove the float and pickup and inspect for free movement and no damage. Replace the "sock" filter while you are in there. Its only about $8 from your local marina

- Also check that there is oil to the VRO pump. If there is an air bubble in the oil line, the pump will sound the alarm, but it might only happen when the motor is actually running.

Let us know what you find.

Mark

 

[River Rider]

Re: Sorry but another VRO questions

Ok I have gotten a chance to mess with this little project some more. First I removed the head temperature sensor wire and the alarm still sounded when I turned on the key never going off. So next I checked out the oil tank. It was over half full, so I pulled the pump unit out and everything seemed to be alirght. Just for good measure tonight or tomorrow I am going to try to clean up the unit, and then check the whole supply line to the motor. Then I will check my fuel line out and possibly replace it and some of the connectors. I am thinking there is either an air bubble in the oil line, or there is a fuel restriction. I could have swore I read on here about a constant alarm is either an over heat (which is not the case) or a fuel restriction. Hopefuly this will fix it. If there are any other ideas let me know. Thanks again for all the help.

 

[d.boat]

Re: Sorry but another VRO questions

Ok I have gotten a chance to mess with this little project some more. First I removed the head temperature sensor wire and the alarm still sounded when I turned on the key never going off. So next I checked out the oil tank. It was over half full, so I pulled the pump unit out and everything seemed to be alirght. Just for good measure tonight or tomorrow I am going to try to clean up the unit, and then check the whole supply line to the motor. Then I will check my fuel line out and possibly replace it and some of the connectors. I am thinking there is either an air bubble in the oil line, or there is a fuel restriction. I could have swore I read on here about a constant alarm is either an over heat (which is not the case) or a fuel restriction. Hopefuly this will fix it. If there are any other ideas let me know. Thanks again for all the help.

Constant alarm that goes away when throttle is reduced = fuel restriction

Constant alarm that triggers SLOW mode and/or doesn't go away when throttle is reduced = overheat

Intermittent alarm that beeps every ~30 seconds or so (very intermittent) = low oil in oil tank

Intermittent alarm that beeps every second or so (very rapid) = no oil getting to fuel/oil pump.

In one of your posts, you mentioned you think the VRO/OMS pump or system is bad? (unless I'm misreading it). I haven't seen anything in your posts that would indicate that.

There is troubleshooting/alarm testing procedures in the engine's service manual and I've seen the steps posted in this forum in the past.

Fail safe is to run 50:1 premix while you're verifying that alarms and oiling system all work correctly if this engine is new to you.

 

[River Rider]

Re: Sorry but another VRO questions

Let me try to clear up what all has went down with this motor. I bought it to replace an older 70 horse I have now. I watched it run, and tested compression. The compression was a little low, right over 100lbs a cylinder, but relatively even. I decided to pull the head and check the gasket and cylinder walls for scoring. I noticed that there was some light scoring in two of the cylinders but the pistons and everything looked alright. I replaced the head gasket and bolted everything back up. Then this made me wonder if the VRO system was working since maybe the scaring was from no oil. I went through the check list for the VRO and found that the alarm was not working at all. I have since replaced the alarm and have tried to test it only to find that when I turn the key the alarm automatically sounds constant. No beep and then start, just constant. I have only started the motor a couple times since this issue because if the beep doesn't go off once I turn the key on that tells me there is a problem. Now as of yesterday I have went through the oil tank and cleaned it. Checked all the oil hoses and re-primed it. Then when I hit the key the motor started imediately but the alarm still sounded from the first turn of the key all the way through the start up and idle. I guess the only thing left for me to do is look for a short somewhere. I will go through all the wires on the motor sometime this weekend, but until then any other ideas are greatly appreciated. Quick question... When you first turn the key on a VRO2 set up how long should the beep last? I mean is it s on off 1 second kind of deal before you bump the starter, or doesn't it sound until you start the engine? Thanks again.

 

[Mark42]

Re: Sorry but another VRO questions

The test beep when the ignition is turned on is only 1 second or so.
It sounds to me that there is a ground fault in the horn circuit. Disconnect the brown (tan) wire in the wire harness from the power head harness (this may be at the red plug on the powerhead, or the brown wire may be separate) and check with a multi-tester for resistance. The resistance should be infinite (1.0). Or use a continuity setting. If the wire harness checks out on the control side of the red plug OK, then test the power head wire harness.

Also, if you disconnect the fuel line exiting the VRO pump, the fuel should be tinted with the color of the oil you are using. If so, then the VRO is most likely OK.

Scoring of cylinders can happen from water in the fuel or a leaking head gasket letting water in. Water in the cylinder turns to steam and washes the oil off the cylinder wall, leading to scoring.

 

[River Rider]

Re: Sorry but another VRO questions

Mark42, so I need to check continuity of the brown wire? My brown wire is connected to the red plug under the cowling. So I would need to unplug the bock side fromt he control side to test the brown wire terminal to what? The block for ground? Sorry if I seem slow I just don't follow on this. Thanks.

 

[Silvertip]

Re: Sorry but another VRO questions

Why not try this:

1) Disconnect the VRO harness plug located just under the VRO.
2) Turn key to RUN -- not start.
3) Alarm Constant ON? Yes - VRO not the problem. No = VRO is the problem
4) If #3 = Yes, disconnect the tan temp switch bullet connector near the temp switch.
5) Turn key to RUN -- not start.
6) Alarm constant ON? Yes = bad alarm module or wiring - not the horn itself. No = check temp switch and tan wiring.