spark arrestor

jlinder

Lieutenant Junior Grade
Joined
Jul 5, 2004
Messages
1,086
Re: spark arrestor

LakeLivin,<br /><br />Try your local Home Depot. If they don't have it call up your local appliance parts store. That is where I think I may have gotten mine.<br /><br />Don S - sorry, I meant the solvent you use for cleaning heater cores.<br /><br />BTW - there is a discussion in Electrical called "Crimp large connectors". If you get a chance take a look. I would be interested in any input you might have.
 

garycinn

Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Oct 7, 2003
Messages
479
Re: spark arrestor

Originally posted by waterone1:<br /> I have to throw another 2 cents worth in here. I have nothing against K&N filters, I have used them on every Vette and hi performance STREET car I have ever owned. The reason is that they restrict air flow much less than any PAPER type air-cleaner on a CAR. Any flame arrestor that I have seen on a boat is far less restrictive than a paper air cleaner. Unless I am missing something here I just don't see a benefit to replacing the flame arrestor with a K&N unit.
I just bought one for my rig. My reason is not for improved air flow it is for filtration. I did a used oil analysis last year and the silicon reading was very high. I am going to install the K&N and do another UOA and compare the silicon readings. I'll post my results.<br /><br />Also, I have a pretty common application (TBI) and I had to do two custom fabrications just to get the thing to work. I'll be posting pictures of my work in the next month as I am still waiting for parts to arrive.<br /><br />I had to buy the following in addition to the $100 SS canister and filter:<br /><br />-Z bolt -- because the TBI bolt hole is offset from center -- ~$10<br />-Vent adapter -- for the 1/2" PCV valve vent tube -- ~$20<br />-Vent adapter -- I had to get a larger one to use as a holder for the air temp sensor -- ~$20<br />-Aluminum air filter riser -- a spacer so I could mount a fitting for the fuel overflow tube -- ~$20<br /><br />Then there is shipping on top of all of that $170. Of course one location didn't have all the items, so I had to go to four sources. I probably have $200 in it by now. I did buy the filter itself from iboats, though.<br /><br />The last two were the custom pieces -- Even K&N acknowledged that even though their chart says buy x or y filter for my application, I still needed to do these two things.<br /><br />I searched forever trying to find a non-plastic air filter riser. I finally found one at a custom marine fabrication shop.<br /><br />Speaking of which, here is the custom shop. I would have ordered their unit -- looks nicer, uses the K&N element, and it's cheaper:<br /><br /> http://www.eddiemarine.com/cart/details.asp?SubCategoryID=83&CategoryID=34
 

f_inscreenname

Commander
Joined
Aug 23, 2001
Messages
2,591
Re: spark arrestor

Just a couple notes;<br />First, As for not needing filtration for the carb. You have to clean your Flame Arrestor don't you ? What do you think gets past it? I bet a lot more then past a K and N filter. <br /> Second; As for paying $50, 100, 200 dollars for a K and N set up. As I said before I paid $28.00 for mine. Just a 10” filter that fits between two chrome disks (hot rod style). Would I throw away a $50.00 FA for a $200.00 K and N, No. For me it was a better choice for a cheaper price.
 

cmyers_uk

Senior Chief Petty Officer
Joined
May 4, 2004
Messages
760
Re: spark arrestor

waterone<br /><br />
Unless I am missing something here I just don't see a benefit to replacing the flame arrestor with a K&N unit.
No ones addressed the real reason they install a K&N, they look cool and give you something to chat about down the pub, There was nothing broken so I had to find something to do ;)
 

Scaaty

Vice Admiral
Joined
May 31, 2004
Messages
5,180
Re: spark arrestor

Seems the air our engines breathe is better than the crap we do.......... :D
 

Scaaty

Vice Admiral
Joined
May 31, 2004
Messages
5,180
Re: spark arrestor

Originally posted Robby6950 "Probably because boats don't follow each other down dusty country roads?"<br /><br />Trog100 sezzzz "neither do all cars.. and there is a remarkable amount of dust floating in the atmosphere at times.. it dont all come from "dusty county roads"..trog100
Agreed, put what that "dust" is will be sticky point. Small rock particles are heavier than air, hence the gravity thing takes its toll and ships at sea don't get much rock dust. That type of dust is no good for engines. Conversly, your belly button lint Trog, softer than (I hope) aluminum or any iron liner, will do no harm.
 

trog100

Senior Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Dec 1, 2004
Messages
751
Re: spark arrestor

they do if they are sailing past a volcano thats just erupted.. he he.. <br /><br />to be honest robby i dont think boats really need air filters (volcano proximity excepted) i dont even think living where i live that my car would be overly bothered if it didnt have one..<br /><br />i am just surprized slightly that aircleaners are missing off boats.. they would also do a better job as a flame arrester than the average flame arrester does.. i can see the logic in fitting a nice pancake type one.. it would also solve the promlem of cleaning the grubby flame arrester which has already been mentioned..<br /><br />i am just a bit surprised they dont come fitted as standard equipment shall we say..<br /><br />trog100
 

Dunaruna

Admiral
Joined
May 2, 2003
Messages
6,027
Re: spark arrestor

Interesting thread. <br /><br />Dust intrusion into the combustion chamber is a killer of auto engines but of course we don't see dust out on the water so it shouldn't be a problem for boats except - <br /><br />Hasn't anyone ever had to clean salt from their boat, the air is ladden with it. The carby throat is a vaccum cleaner, it'll suck everything and anything in its path. And then there's pollen..........<br /><br />Aldo
 

rodbolt

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Sep 1, 2003
Messages
20,066
Re: spark arrestor

if the conditions you boat in are that dusty check your GPS and depth finder. I have commercial boats that have been running since 92 and run 80 or so hours a week with no air filters just flame arrestors. we just clean them weekly. most air filters are a paper element. not only will they clog quicker they will hold combustables. and there really isnt much need for filtered air in most engine boxes. if you have that much salt in your engine box check the seawater system for leaks :) . if a boat comes in for service with an airfilter I run the number. if its USCG approved I continue if its not I stop there until the customer either brings it into compliance or autherizes me to do so. or he pays for anything done already signs a non-compliance workorder and takes it someplace else.
 

f_inscreenname

Commander
Joined
Aug 23, 2001
Messages
2,591
Re: spark arrestor

Dam Rodbolt. I am glad I don't have to bring my boat to your shop for a oil change. I would have to bring a folder of paperwork proving all the stuff was USCG approved even though it may not look like it. I wouldn't have it any other way.<br /> A serious question; are all mechanics responsible for doing a “safety check” or “inspection” on a boat? The reason I ask is because you say “if not up to compliance you basically wont work on it”. Would you be held responsible for a motor having the wrong air cleaner on it if you say, just changed a fan belt?
 

rodbolt

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Sep 1, 2003
Messages
20,066
Re: spark arrestor

screenmame<br /> yep<br /> I have seen 2 cases of it in my area in the past 6 years or so.seems the lawyers detremined since we are trained and have the schools we should be responsible for idiots. kinda like macdonalds is responsible cause ya dumped hot coffe in your lap. usually wont take a folder full. most times the USCG approval or the saeJ number is on it. if I have any doubts is a few keystrokes away. that is a good thing about factory support :) :) .<br /> if I call merc or volvo or yamaha and say I got umptysquat motor with a doodlysquat part # if its a safty thing they respond quickly. its crazy but how it works. as an indepentant contractor for about 5 marinas in my area I got good at sniffing out bogus parts. so far? so if ya wanna bring it in take off all the autozone and advance auto stickers. and do away with the rubber line splice in the metal line from the fuel pump to the carb.<br /> while if its not an obivous thing I dont worry. its just when its an obvious thing. I make good money by observing things.
 

garycinn

Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Oct 7, 2003
Messages
479
Re: spark arrestor

I'll post back in 6 months with a UOA of my oil after the FA install. The silicon levels in my last one were so high, I can't help but think they will be considerably lower. I have another UOA that I haven't sent in yet before the FA install to make sure that the one high silicon reading report wasn't a fluke. I'll do two after as well.<br /><br />Just look at all that crap on your aluminum fin FA that you clean. That crap was the stuff that stopped on the fins. Imagine what went past the fins. All that finds its way into your engine. Yes, waterways are less dusty than roads, but there is still contaminants in an engine compartment. Tell my wife that has allergies that there are no contaminants in the air out on the waterways. As they wear, the V or serp belts themselves are another source of crap to fly down the TB.<br /><br />The K&N CG approved arresters don't have paper elements -- they are gauze. I'll also add that they are usually much larger than their AL fin counterparts.<br /><br />Some present the logic that my boat has lasted decades w/o an air cleaner. I present that it will last longer with one.<br /><br />Some will put a K&N on for looks, some for breathability -- for me it is filtration. My family V6 bowrider isn't going to perform better and actually will look a little silly with a chrome bling bling canister sitting on top of it, but I do think it will filter better and I will be posting UOAs to show it. <br /><br />If it doesn't improve I'll post that too. I'll scan the UOAs in case someone thinks I just typed in crazy numbers.
 

Scaaty

Vice Admiral
Joined
May 31, 2004
Messages
5,180
Re: spark arrestor

Originally posted by trog100:<br /> they do if they are sailing past a volcano thats just erupted.. he he.. <br />trog100
Ya know, it seems that I DO need a airfilter then, Trogman...90 miles from Mt. St Helens, and it just let go again last week :eek:
 

Scaaty

Vice Admiral
Joined
May 31, 2004
Messages
5,180
Re: spark arrestor

Originally posted by rodbolt:<br /> and do away with the rubber line splice in the metal line from the fuel pump to the carb..
But its so much easier........(and guilty for a short amount of time to make sure it was a bad pump) :rolleyes:
 

Scaaty

Vice Admiral
Joined
May 31, 2004
Messages
5,180
Re: spark arrestor

Garycinn...."the V or serp belts themselves are another source of crap to fly down the TB."<br /> <br /> Just how can rubber tear up a cylinder way, hold a valve open at 1800 degress, ya know logical stuff? And most of the crap on a FA is combustion byproducts and oily junk spit back up during valve overlap, backfire, etc...jmho<br />Ps. Also I don't worry to mush about a little dust going through the motor, when I'm cooling it with corrosive saltwater...
 

trog100

Senior Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Dec 1, 2004
Messages
751
Re: spark arrestor

"Ya know, it seems that I DO need a airfilter then, Trogman...90 miles from Mt. St Helens, and it just let go again last week"<br /><br /><br />
trog.gif
<br /><br /><br />trog100
 

rodbolt

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Sep 1, 2003
Messages
20,066
Re: spark arrestor

if I had a choice between filtered air and freshwater,full cooling, system Ill take the freshwater over air filters anyday. while I dont care if it has a flame arrestor or an airfilter just as long as its USCG approved, I dont design them I just fix them and try not to get sued. my general business liability policy has gone from 900 a year in 91 to 4200 a year this year. they balmed it on the TERROR threat, so far I have never had a claim. I have found that attention to detail, careful observation, strict adherence to all applicable service guides and 30 years of mechanical,electronics and machine shop experience gets me by. so if I am watching not to much auto stuff gets by. I have an abotion 86 searay in the shop now that is junk. I finally told the owner of the marina either fix it the way it should be or get another tech on it. this poor searay has had so much shadetree and stuoid work done on the drive there is nothing left to fix. you name it its bad from the gimbal bearing to the upper driven gear to the sideplay on the propshaft. even the trim rams are so stuck in the caps it takes a 3 ft screw driver to rotate them. the man bought the boat a few months ago and the seller said it just needed a tune up. the motor is wasted.
 
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