Starter Motors continually dieing

[HPTGreyGhost]

Volvo AQ240 or PCM (not sure) - Ford 351 w/ 275 outdrive.

Just put my 2nd replacement starter on. It cranks for a few seconds and then just makes a loud click. I think I saw a bit of spark and smoke.

I pull it and bench test and it is dead like the last two. I have a couple starter relays(always keep spares) and they seem to be operating correctly. I've got ~13v on the power post and when i turn the ignition it jumps over to the starter post like normal. Initially there is a voltage drop, but once the starter fries there is no voltage drop. Each starter removed will not bench test.

I've cleaned up my powers and grounds. I've tried different solenoids that i'm pretty sure work. The starters just keep frying. I believe I have the correct starters (I got mine for a 74 LTD 5.8 and they look identical to what was on it).

Is there anything else to check before chalking it up to another bad reman starter. I'm sure I'll have to install another, but before i potentially fry it and have to pull it again I'm looking for other alternatives. Anyone who's changed a starter on a boat, knows its not fun to try and hold that heavy thing down there and thread it in at awkward angles. Thanks for any suggestions!

 

[Don S]

Re: Starter Motors continually dieing

Are you sure the engine is ok? Pull the plugs and see if you can turn the engine by hand.

 

[HPTGreyGhost]

Re: Starter Motors continually dieing

Yep. Good spark, compression and fuel prior to this issue. I can turn the engine over by socket wrench and breakerbar now. Not hydralock or any other mechanical issue i can think of. I'm assuming something electrical is going on.

Starter spun for a few seconds turning engine fine then died.

 

[fishinpa]

Re: Starter Motors continually dieing

It would be pretty hard to get the ford starter wired in- correctly !




fish

 

[fishinpa]

Re: Starter Motors continually dieing

Where are you getting these starter motors from ?


fish

 

[Bifflefan]

Re: Starter Motors continually dieing

It cranks for a few seconds and then just makes a loud click. I think I saw a bit of spark and smoke.

I pull it and bench test and it is dead like the last two. I have a couple starter relays(always keep spares) and they seem to be operating correctly. I've got ~13v on the power post and when i turn the ignition it jumps over to the starter post like normal. Initially there is a voltage drop, but once the starter fries there is no voltage drop. Each starter removed will not bench test.

I've cleaned up my powers and grounds. I've tried different solenoids that i'm pretty sure work. The starters just keep frying. I believe I have the correct starters (I got mine for a 74 LTD 5.8 and they look identical to what was on it).

Im just quessing but, are you buying them at auto zone or some place like that?
If so, those kids in the sweat shops in china just dont rebuild them like they used to.
Take one of your cooked ones and take it to a alt/batt shop and have them rebuild it correctly, with the additions you need for a marine application.

Try using different pos and neg battery cables also. The ones you have may be bad. Use jumper cables to test it, Good ones.
High resistance in the cables can fry a starter.

By the way how are you "bench testing it?"
If your hooking it a power source and letting it crank over that is wrong.
It must test it under a load (i know you are now saying its not turning at all).
But still to do the test you need a load on it.

 

[fossill]

Re: Starter Motors continually dieing

Volvo AQ240 or PCM (not sure) - Ford 351 w/ 275 outdrive.


I believe I have the correct starters (I got mine for a 74 LTD 5.8 and they look identical to what was on it).

So you got an automotive starter on it?

 

[HPTGreyGhost]

Re: Starter Motors continually dieing

Yep. Automotive starter from advanced auto parts identical to the one that was on there for the last two years. I know that doesn't mean its necessarily right but it was working.

I guess the parts could be just crap. Ill replace the wiring along the power chain and the battery ground to the block and then exchange this guy for a third and see what happens.

If it burns up I don't want to pay a place to rebuild it and immediately fry it again.

Is there any diagnosing I can do prior to making these changes or should I just execute and see whatt happens, wire and terminals are inexpensive and the. Starter should be a no cost swap I hope, but I would like to nail the problem with testing vice replacing if at all possible.

As far as wiring. One wire from solenoid to starter. Starter grounds to block. And by bench testing the dead starter I mean by hooking positive to battery and ground to block and watching it do nothing for a second.

 

[bucnon75]

Re: Starter Motors continually dieing

Your starter, distributor, and alternator should have a sticker labeled with
"SAE J1171". Not sure if it's true, but I've heard that you can get fined for not using ignition protected parts on your boat (if your boat is inspected while on the water).

Might be cheaper to have the original rebuilt or look on ebay.
I copied this from a website on why to use a marine starter: (http://www.boatpartsinfo.com/2010/05/why-use-a-marine-grade-starter/)

"In an enclosed engine compartment where volatile fumes exist, any stray spark could cause a catastrophic explosion injuring or killing the boat?s passengers and any surrounding people. In order to prevent this, a marine starter is constructed with internal shielding to contain any sparks or stray electricity that could travel into the bell housing or bilge where gasoline fumes may be present."

"You can always use a marine starter on your car or pickup but never use an automotive starter on your boat. The slight difference in cost is not worth the potential disaster that could happen if you do. By the way, remember to always use your bilge blower for the period of time recommended by your boat?s manufacturer before starting your engine."

 

[HPTGreyGhost]

Re: Starter Motors continually dieing

Well my starter did have that label but none of of my other stuff has that on it, and I know I bought a marine solenoid from ebasicpower. Hopefully Advanced has thrown away my core then!

So I researched testing my wires prior to changing them out. Unfortunately, I don't think I can run these tests now that my starter is bum. Is there another way to create a load to run this test or am I still just better of running and grabbing a new starter and some wires?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OIRnZNrBOw0

 

[HPTGreyGhost]

Re: Starter Motors continually dieing

Not sure I have anything that could put that kind of load on it. Thanks. Ohh well. In a few hours I'm off work and out to grab another starter and some wiring.



Any of you other 351 guys have a shim on your starter? Mine just bolts in to the block, nothing in between.

http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=100640&page=2

I have the correct 2 3/8" on this starter, but no shim.

 

[6meter]

Re: Starter Motors continually dieing

I put 3 starters from Advanced Auto in the family car. Told them I was tired of changing them in parking lots at night. Stay away from the cheap ones. Sometimes they offer 3 different grades, get the most expensive. You'll replace it alot less.

 

[TiredoleBoy]

Re: Starter Motors continually dieing

Starters are NAPA all the way.

 

[HPTGreyGhost]

Re: Starter Motors continually dieing

Ok. Update:

I returned starter for another one. Thanks Advance for you wonderful lifetime warranties.

When installing this starter, I noticed that where you connect the wire from the solenoid the casing comes in contact with the wire once all the way secured down. This caused the wire to ground. My original starter had the post on the end of the starter so this wasn't an issue. So every time I hooked my wiring up to these cheap starters the wire would ground out killing the starters. The newest starter is installed, I bent the wire to be at a 45* angle away from the starter so it doesn't come in contact with the casing and wha-la. All good.

they have pictures of it here:
http://shop.advanceautoparts.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product_Starter-Worldwide_5220092-P_123_R|GRPSTRTAMS_539091757___

So I've ordered a new marine starter from DBElectric. Very good price. This auto one will be my backup to keep onboard just in case. I like having two of everything (starters, solenoids, alternators, fuel pumps, carbs). I even got two oil pumps on board as if I'd pull the pan and replace it right there. But you never know.

 

[TiredoleBoy]

Re: Starter Motors continually dieing

Ok. Update:

I returned starter for another one. Thanks Advance for you wonderful lifetime warranties.

When installing this starter, I noticed that where you connect the wire from the solenoid the casing comes in contact with the wire once all the way secured down. This caused the wire to ground. My original starter had the post on the end of the starter so this wasn't an issue. So every time I hooked my wiring up to these cheap starters the wire would ground out killing the starters. The newest starter is installed, I bent the wire to be at a 45* angle away from the starter so it doesn't come in contact with the casing and wha-la. All good.

they have pictures of it here:
http://shop.advanceautoparts.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product_Starter-Worldwide_5220092-P_123_R|GRPSTRTAMS_539091757___

So I've ordered a new marine starter from DBElectric. Very good price. This auto one will be my backup to keep onboard just in case. I like having two of everything (starters, solenoids, alternators, fuel pumps, carbs). I even got two oil pumps on board as if I'd pull the pan and replace it right there. But you never know.

DB is good I have bought quite a few items from them. But what about this place? Do they have starters that would work?

 

[HPTGreyGhost]

Re: Starter Motors continually dieing

Ha. Never looked too closely at the top. Didn't notice this site was more than just a forum.

I see them on their but since they got a bit of everything the prices are about double. I'm sure I can find something good to buy on here eventually. I am a B.O.A.T.er after all. These forums are great, even if to just reassure me that I'm not an idiot, I just do stupid stuff.

 

[dr1077]

Re: Starter Motors continually dieing

Volvo AQ240 or PCM (not sure) - Ford 351 w/ 275 outdrive.

Just put my 2nd replacement starter on. It cranks for a few seconds and then just makes a loud click. I think I saw a bit of spark and smoke.

I pull it and bench test and it is dead like the last two. I have a couple starter relays(always keep spares) and they seem to be operating correctly. I've got ~13v on the power post and when i turn the ignition it jumps over to the starter post like normal. Initially there is a voltage drop, but once the starter fries there is no voltage drop. Each starter removed will not bench test.

I've cleaned up my powers and grounds. I've tried different solenoids that i'm pretty sure work. The starters just keep frying. I believe I have the correct starters (I got mine for a 74 LTD 5.8 and they look identical to what was on it).

Is there anything else to check before chalking it up to another bad reman starter. I'm sure I'll have to install another, but before i potentially fry it and have to pull it again I'm looking for other alternatives. Anyone who's changed a starter on a boat, knows its not fun to try and hold that heavy thing down there and thread it in at awkward angles. Thanks for any suggestions!

I had a motor that went through 6 starters ( a 60 hp evinrude)and come to find out, the flywheel was warped and causing the problem the whole time. They put on a new flywheel and didnt have a problem with it after that.