Starter Not Engaging

[platinumedge]

So, I've posted several times about my 1994 Four Winns Sundowner 215 and have always received knowledgeable response/critique. The boat has performed very well over the years (5.8 liter EFI) after a fair amount of diagnoses and repairs/replacements. Recently, however, I'm not getting any response when I try to start the engine. The battery is new; the neutral switch is engaged (it's not interferring with the starter circuit); the main starter fuses are good; I'm not getting the click-click-click; nothing but a small click when I turn the key, as well as the low-pressure fuel pump running.
I have the Seloc engine repair manual, which is EXCELLENT, and it has several pages of troubleshooting. What I'm wondering here is if any of you fine folks have any "first suggestions"? In other words, I have no issues with following Seloc's list of items to troubleshoot, but perhaps some of you have experienced this problem and can point me in a more specific direction to start my diagnosis?

As always, I thank you very much for any input you may have.

 

[Scott Danforth]

the seloc manual isnt worth being used for anything more than a knee pad.

look at the pilot relay for the starter. follow the yellow wire with red stripe. being EFI, the relay should be next to the fuel pump relay.

 

[alldodge]

Since it just started doing this check the relay as Scott mentioned, and could be the key switch. Check if power is supplied to yell/red wire on key when turned to start at the key and relay

 

[ESGWheel]

I get what you are hoping for, but I can only offer a logical troubleshooting guide.

While new ensure the battery is fully charged.

Make sure all battery and starter connections are clean and tight. This means removing them and using a wire brush, etc. to all nice and bright. And it includes the battery cable to engine block connection > need to remove it, not just look, as the corrosion will be underneath. Also same for the Starter connections, both lugs and the spade (which may be a smallish stud) > ensure the POS batt cable is disconnected prior to doing this. Try again and if still an issue, then:

Test for +12V at the terminal on the solenoid when the key is put to the start position > this is the ‘signal’ for the starter to kick in and only gets voltage when key is in run. It energizes the solenoid which in turn causes the starter to engage and run. See pic. No 12V? > issue with wiring or relays upstream and need to tease out. Have 12V? > probable starter issue so do this:

• Rap the solenoid with the handle of a screwdriver and try again > if it starts, it’s an indication of a failing starting so replace. While it may continue to work for a while do not want to be on water and find out it does not. If no change > then the starter has failed.

Keep posting results and questions!

 

[platinumedge]

As usual I honestly appreciate all of your input. (Except the Seloc manual has been very instrumental over the years, especially with the fuel system and the outdrive!) Anyway, the boat is currently in a storage lot and I'm planning on bring it back to my garage tomorrow to begin work. I will definitely keep you posted.

Cheers All!

 

[platinumedge]

P.S. The battery is less than 1 year old and sits at my house on a trickly charge. It's currently showing 12.74 volts.

 

[cyclops222]

Your battery cables are too old and corroded UNDER the insulation. Use a pair of battery jumper cables to start the starter motor......... GET the + and - cables right. Connect only to the starter big bolts. Connect the clamps to starter FIRST. Then other ends to battery.

 

[platinumedge]

Cyclops, I think that is an excellent idea. This boat sat outside in a Maryland parking lot for 2 or 3 years before I bought it. And I have never changed out those cables. I don’t have any jumper cables (my sister, who lives nearby does). Do you foresee any problems with using a battery charger? Or it probby wouldn’t be able to provide enough current, even in “Start” mode, eh?
Getting ready to go check voltages on the starter assist solenoid (relay), as suggested by ESGWheel. Will report back soon.

Thanks all!

 

[platinumedge]

Okay, so, good call, ESGWheel - I do not have any voltage coming to the Y/R wire/terminal when I turn the key to 'start'. I have full battery voltage to the large red wire/terminal at all times. So I'll have to start working "upstream" and checking wiring and relays along the route. And I need to purchase a new positive battery cable as the connections at both ends are a bit sketchy.
And, I plan to also remove, inspect, and clean all electrical connections along the starter circuit. I also need to check the key switch for continuity, etc. I did forget to check my neutral switch tonight, but my low pressure fuel pump does engage when I turn the key to 'on'.
I'll try to look at all of these things tomorrow and report my findings.

Cheers!

 

[ESGWheel]

DO NOT use a battery charger to try to start the engine. Only specialty equipped chargers can handle that type of current (read: professional grade for garages). If you have one that claims will start an engine (Start Mode) I suspect that it’s like one of those battery jump starters and may work BUT I would be reluctant hook it to the starter > using a jumper cable alligator type clamp connected to the starter lug is likely to come off under the movement / vibrations when the starter kicks over. Simply too risky for a lot of fireworks IMO. While it may be a good idea to change out the main battery cables, try the cleaning until bright first including that grounding cable that you will need to remove to ensure no corrosion under.

Once you get this going and desire to change out the cables, there are companies out there that will make up marine grade cables which are NOT the same as what you buy at the auto store.

 

[ESGWheel]

Our posting crossed.

OK so no voltage at the Y/R wire so troubleshoting time.

If desired, you can “jump” from the POS battery terminal to this terminal to check the rest of the system (starter works, and if does good connections exist). Make yourself a jumper wire (same size wire as the Y/R) and connect it to the starter in lieu of the Y/R. And have the other end capable of reaching the POS terminal of the batt. Set up like you are going to run the engine (muffs, etc) and put the key in run. And then touch that wire to the POS battery. It should crank and start. Remove wire fm batt. It may spark a little but no issues, it will be fine just make a solid connection with the POS batt.

 

[platinumedge]

Yeah, I didn't think a "regular" battery charger would work, so I won't try that. I'll get some jumber cables from my sister. I'll try that "jumper" wire from the battery to the Y/R terminal (same gauge wire) and see what that reveals.

 

[ESGWheel]

I'll get some jumber cables from my sister.

again, please do not try a jumper cables directly to the starter, only to the battery... thx