starting problems, not sure where to start

[talbot86]

Hi all I have an 86 Force 125. I am trying to start it for the first time in three years. When I turn the key, the flywheel barely moves and I can hear a clicking noise coming from somewhere near the boat side of the motor, near the carbs. When I push in the choke everything goes silent and nothing moves. I am not sure if the flywheel is supposed to have a lot of resistance when I go to turn it by hand, but it is nearly impossible to budge. I have just installed a new battery and fresh fuel. The spark plugs where changed out right before it got put into storage. Thanks in advance for any help/suggestions.

 

[aladin_sane]

Re: starting problems, not sure where to start

It could be corroded connections between the battery and the starter, or a bad starter. I would start with the connections. Follow both the positive and negative leads from the battery to the motor and make sure each connection is clean and bright. If that does not get the motor spinning faster, you can either replace the stater or take it apart and clean the armature and make sure the brushes are in good shape.

 

[talbot86]

Re: starting problems, not sure where to start

Thanks, I'll give that a shot. As far as the choke goes, it doesn't even move when I push the key in. I am not too worried about it, its hot here in socal.

 

[jim j geezer]

Re: starting problems, not sure where to start

Three years in storage... If the cylinders weren't misted/coated with oil prior to storage you might have some rusty rings - making it hard to turn over. I'd think about pulling the plugs and spraying in some fuel/oil mix to loosen up the innards. Why put the extra stress on the starter motor? I agree with talbot86 that you likely have continuity issues both in the starter and choke circuits. Don't overlook the starter switch in the case of the choke. You mentioned SoCal. Has this engine been used in salt water? If so, all the more reason to suspect corrosion creating poor electrical connections - including inside the starter switch.

EDIT: After spraying fuel/oil mix into the cylinders, turn the engine over WITH THE IGNITION OFF! You can just jump the starter with a set of jumper cables AT.......... the battery. You don't want any sparks to ignite that fuel mixture - AND your outboard.

 

[RogersJetboat454]

Re: starting problems, not sure where to start

While your playing with the battery connections, pull your spark plugs out and spray some lubricant into the cylinders (take your pick, PB blaster, WD-40, liquid wrench, 2 stroke oil, etc), then turn the engine over by hand to see how it feels with the lubricant in it.

 

[talbot86]

Re: starting problems, not sure where to start

Three years in storage... If the cylinders weren't misted/coated with oil prior to storage you might have some rusty rings - making it hard to turn over. I'd think about pulling the plugs and spraying in some fuel/oil mix to loosen up the innards. Why put the extra stress on the starter motor? I agree with talbot86 that you likely have continuity issues both in the starter and choke circuits. Don't overlook the starter switch in the case of the choke. You mentioned SoCal. Has this engine been used in salt water? If so, all the more reason to suspect corrosion creating poor electrical connections - including inside the starter switch.

EDIT: After spraying fuel/oil mix into the cylinders, turn the engine over WITH THE IGNITION OFF! You can just jump the starter with a set of jumper cables AT.......... the battery. You don't want any sparks to ignite that fuel mixture - AND your outboard.

My family has owned the boat since the late 80's and we never used it in salt water, its possible the PO could have but that was a long time ago. From trying to start it the battery went dead. I jumped it with my Jeep and the starter seemed to be working, but I could tell that the starter was under stress due to the flywheel being hard to move. All of the electrical connections between the battery and starter are clean. I will try pulling the plugs, spraying some mixture, and jump the starter as you have suggested. Thanks.

 

[aladin_sane]

Re: starting problems, not sure where to start

Don't dismiss a possible brush problem in the starter. I have had this cause a slow turn over at start up more than once.

 

[talbot86]

Re: starting problems, not sure where to start

Update: Removed the plugs last night and the flywheel would turn relatively easy by hand. Tried installing new plugs, same problem where the flywheel is barely moving and the starter is whining under the load. Could this be a compression issue? I am at the point where I want to take it in to a local shop, but this motor is over 25 years old. Is it worth dumping money into?

 

[talbot86]

Re: starting problems, not sure where to start

After reading more on the forum I believe it is in fact the starter. I took it off, opened it up and there is a significant amount of black powder buildup. It is the original starter. Now I'll clean it off and turn the brushes over.

 

[Goldrown4]

Re: starting problems, not sure where to start

After reading more on the forum I believe it is in fact the starter. I took it off, opened it up and there is a significant amount of black powder buildup. It is the original starter. Now I'll clean it off and turn the brushes over.

Not sure if your starter pinion is stuck up near the flywheel? Mine was. clean and lube if it is, and ensure a fully charged battery is cranking out the CCAs. I haven't had confirmation on this forum yet, but a theory I have is the reason I couldn't get past 1600 rpm's was possibly due to the starter's pinion worm-gear stuck up at the flywheel. Also, the flywheel will be harder to rotate by hand due to the compression with the plugs installed.

 

[aladin_sane]

Re: starting problems, not sure where to start

One last thing to look at if you still have the stater apart. Make sure the electrical connections for the brushes (to the stater case and the positive terminal) are also clear of any corrosion.

 

[talbot86]

Re: starting problems, not sure where to start

It seems it's been one step forward, two steps back... I ordered a brand new oem replacement starter, installed it today and I am having the same problem of the flywheel barely moving. I have pulled all of the connections and cleaned them, nothing changes. I have tried jumping the starter from the battery and the same thing happens. I took the spark plugs out and jumped the starter and the flywheel spins just fine. Is this a compression related issue or something else?

 

[aladin_sane]

Re: starting problems, not sure where to start

Normally a compression related issue is not enough compression, not too much. I think your problem is still electrical. Get your meter out and read the voltage across the starter as it is being cranked.

 

[Dadio]

Re: starting problems, not sure where to start

Normally a compression related issue is not enough compression, not too much. I think your problem is still electrical. Get your meter out and read the voltage across the starter as it is being cranked.

I've ben following this thread with a 70 hp Chrysler (1969) new battery reads 12.63 volts, voltage across brand new starter when cranking is 2.5 volts. Same problem, starter cranks perfectly without plugs but slows and stops under load. The only thing original is solenoid. Could that be the problem?

 

[foodfisher]

Re: starting problems, not sure where to start

Starter mount to block is a ground. Be sure it's a good connect.

 

[Dadio]

Re: starting problems, not sure where to start

Starter mount to block is a ground. Be sure it's a good connect.

Yes, it is a good connection, also checked cables to both sides of solenoid and starter. All good and tight.

 

[foodfisher]

Re: starting problems, not sure where to start

Dadio, this is why we prefer you start your own thread. My reply was for talbot86, the OP (original poster), sorry the reply couldn't work for you. in the future please don't jack a thread.

 

[Dadio]

Re: starting problems, not sure where to start

Sorry about that. Wasn't my intention just frustrated...