Stingray Hydrofoil

[Jdeagro]

Re: Stingray Hydrofoil

5150;

If you are happy with what you have then stay where you are and enjoy your boat. I mean that with all sincerity!

On a side note, you must have been looking at our ProTroller series which was designed primarily for the walleye fishermen. When fully deployed they drop to near vertical and thereby create "Brakes". Our regular Smart Tabs are deployed about 3" at rest and retract up when they boat gets on plane.

Most of the time the 3" is not below the lower most bottom of the boat ("V" Hulls).

At any speed the deployed tabs ( regardless of brand) lift the stern, they do not "pull it down".

 

[Jdeagro]

Re: Stingray Hydrofoil

Thaddeous;

When I first developed these it was for personal use without the intention of trying to save gas. Some years later I decided to market them. Only after a number of magazines (in which I did not advertise) tested the product did we find that there was a fuel savings as well as performance improvements.

In November of 2006 Volvo in conjunction with Larson conducted an extensive before and after test without and with the Smart Tabs. The results indicated significant overall fuel saving. The results are available.

Trim Tabs of any manufacture are an extension of the boat hull, and this extension can be adjusted. In short the hull is reconfigured (shaped) to suit the conditions as they exist at that time. The shape of the hull dictates the performance of the boat.

Because a hydrofoil is a fixed "lifting" devise (an additional planning surface), then the results will improve in certain areas and deteriorate in other areas.

Typically the low speed stern drop is reduced (better "hole" shot) and then the cruising or high speed is also reduced because the stern lift is more than necessary (pushed the bow down too much) and the trim can not compensate.

If the boat top speed is under 20 MPH this bow down issue may not occur.

 

[Hitech]

Re: Stingray Hydrofoil

Are you here to offer any real experience on the foil, like the OP asked, or just here to sell your tabs?

I repeat, try and find ANYONE who has installed smart tabs, didn't like the performance and removed them. Then try the same search for foils.

Most people report an INCREASE in top end speed. And he's not just here to sell his product. If you buy it and don't like it he refunds your money. You can call him and he will gladly explain to you what his product does and why. You should probably read some of his posts before throwing out accusations.

 

[CaptainMo608]

Re: Stingray Hydrofoil

Ok...I have been reading about these hydrofoils ( or Stingrays, Smart Tabs, etc, etc ) and hear so many pros and cons it is hard to determine what is best for me. I bought a new SmokerCraft ProMagnum 161 (16 ft ) with a Merc Optimax 90 Hp last fall. Obviuosly I haven't had a ton of hrs with it on the water, but enought o have gotten a good feel for the boat. The boat is 900 lbs dry and the Opti weighs in at 375 lbs. I definitely have an issue with getting on plane. Combination of weight of motor and having the max hp allowed for this boat creates it I imagine. I can get on plane pretty fast if I jump on it hard. But, I don't always want to be having to come out of the water at max throttle to get on plane quicker. I also would like to be able to stay on plane better at slower speeds. I do get some porpoising now and then, but can always seem to get the under control with proper trimming, even though I think I end up having to "over-trim" to accomplish it. Anybody have any suggestions for my particular situation? The boat dealer has confirmed my set up is maximized now as far as motor height, etc...

 

[Hitech]

Re: Stingray Hydrofoil

I have a similar situation. Mines an I/O with 110 hp and a 1500lb boat (total weight), but the problems are basically the same. After reading MANY posts, here and on other forums, I?m putting Smart Tabs on. The SX series are only $119 here on iBoats.

If you read enough posts by BOTH foil users and tab users I think it will become clear.

 

[bhammer]

Re: Stingray Hydrofoil

Guys, I have done the reseach and read hundreds of posts on tabs versus foils. I have a foil that is cominng off my boat and I am adding tabs. This is with money that could oterwise be spent somewhere else. The news / facts about tabs are just there. Like I said, I am going to do as much uf a scientific study as I can to see what results I get. I will post here when I am all finished.

 

[thaddeus76]

Re: Stingray Hydrofoil

I repeat, try and find ANYONE who has installed smart tabs, didn't like the performance and removed them. Then try the same search for foils.

Most people report an INCREASE in top end speed. And he's not just here to sell his product. If you buy it and don't like it he refunds your money. You can call him and he will gladly explain to you what his product does and why. You should probably read some of his posts before throwing out accusations.

Look, The original poster asked about experiences with the stingray. I did just that and reported that I was happy with my hydrofoil.
Jdeagro then proceeds to tell me everything wrong with my foil and its adverse affects on my boat's performance. Not ONE thing he stated was correct.. When I realized what he did for a living, it appeared to be a lousy, misplaced marketing ploy. I don't need to read his posts understand. I got the same affect for $26 on Ebay new than $150 plus having to drill holes in my transom.
They may be great devices, and people may love them, but I don't need it shoved down my throat when I am content with the product I purchased.

 

[QC]

Re: Stingray Hydrofoil

Explain my comments ^^^^^ Maybe every high speed race boat is wrong . . .

 

[Hitech]

Re: Stingray Hydrofoil

Jdeagro then proceeds to tell me everything wrong with my foil and its adverse affects on my boat's performance. Not ONE thing he stated was correct.. When I realized what he did for a living, it appeared to be a lousy, misplaced marketing ploy. ...but I don't need it shoved down my throat when I am content with the product I purchased.

If you are happy with what you have then stay where you are and enjoy your boat. I mean that with all sincerity!

First, that doesn't sound like someone trying to shove anything down someone's throat.

Next, your boats performance is affected. You lost top end speed, and he has explained why. The foil will likely cost more overall. The other performance issues he brought up likely exist also, just not enough that they bother you. The bow rides low so you trim the motor to correct it. The boat leans harder in hard turns, but it isn't what you would call a problem. If you were to do measured testing with it on and off you would be able to see the difference. However, since it works they way you want it to, it is a good product for you.

If you've read Jdeagro's posts you'd know that he really is sincere in his above comment. And of course he thinks that Smart Tabs are a good product, he invented them. And he doesn't try to hide the fact that he did. He's very up front about it.


P.S. I had a longer much more detailed post, but I accidentally deleted it. So this is all I got...

 

[bhammer]

Re: Stingray Hydrofoil

I agree that the OP original question was about the foil. If that is all he wanted then we may, may, have overstepped our bounds but I think advice is a good thing. I see this site as a way to help people, and in this case, many people believe that when someone is going to do something wrong, or there is a better way, such as this case, they speak up. I see this as the same thing as someone trying to work on their boat and may be going about it the wrong way. People do and should speak up. Or, that is what I want them to do for me.

I am chosing to remove my foil because of the facts I have read and boat people that highly recomend them. The dealer I use regulary, doesn't carry them and told me when I bought my boat, I should remove the tail and replace with the tabs. He had nothing to gain but has many, many pro boats that use them and report back to him.

John has been around here for a while not pushing his product what so ever, that I have seen. I am sure that the Mods would correct that behavior if he were to do that. He is like a lot of people here, state facts and try to help when illogical comparisons are made. Everyone has a right to defend a product or position.

 

[5150abf]

Re: Stingray Hydrofoil

Keep in mind this all started because someone ask if they should put a foil on that someone gave them.
Usually only politics or bringing up Notre Dame gets people going like this.

I actually don't even run a real foil, I have one that I made myself at work, it is just a 3/16 plate with a small break on the back but it works really well on my boat and does what I want it too.

Jdeagro, if you check my posts I have never said anything bad or derogatory about tabs, only that I don't think they will work with the way I use my boat, they are a good product that is obviously very popular.

And I agree with bhammer, there is nothing wrong with a lively discussion and I think everyone here has done really well at making there point without getting personal, good group of people here.

 

[dave11]

Re: Stingray Hydrofoil

bhammer

I am looking forward to your results. I will be doing similar tests after I get a fuel flow meter.

 

[ondarvr]

Re: Stingray Hydrofoil

I'm always amazed at these foil vs tabs threads because if you do a search and read about each one you'd know they don't do the same thing.

The foils claim to do many things, but none of the possible benefits will be seen by just bolting it on and heading for the water, it takes adjusting things for it to actually make any improvements in performance. With tabs it may take some adjustments also, but easier ones, and sometimes neither one helps a great deal.

If a foil will be of any benefit it needs to be out of the water at speed, this means the motor needs to be raised, which is not really possible with an I/O. With an O/B you can raise the motor to get the foil out of the water, this eliminates all the handling issues and speed loss. Raising the motor normally results in higher RPMs, which means a higher top speed and maybe a prop change to more pitch. The foil helps keep water around the prop so it won't ventilate as easily during acceleration when the motors been raised, this helps the hole shot and planing at lower speeds.
With an I/O it would be difficult to make the correct adjustments to get the most out of a foil, so while you may get on plane faster, the foil (depending on design) may be in the water all the time, this yields all the negative results.

I Did this on my 19' CC with a 200HP Evinrude, I don't use the boat that much and I didn't want to spend the $$$ on SS props to get the most out of the motor. I did have a foil hanging in my shop though, so I decided to play with it to see what it would do. I was able to raise the motor one hole higher than without it and increase my speed and RPM, plus I could plane much faster because it eliminated 90% of the ventilation it had even when the motor had been mounted one hole lower. Tabs would have been of little help, because there were no issues with keeping the bow down, or porpoising.

Even though a foil can help, prop changes and other things can get you to about the same place or better, but for more money. For most people and sittuations tabs are what's needed and adjusted correctly there's not many down sides to them. What you need just depends on what problems your trying to solve.

 

[rak98221]

Re: Stingray Hydrofoil

I recently installed a Stingray Hydrofoil on my '89 Bayliner 1952 cuddy, it has the 5.0L Cobra. What a difference, I have read alot of negative stuff about hydrofoils, but on this boat and my last, a '72 Glastron Aqualift AQ170A V/P 270 outdrive it worked as advertised. The boat hops up really quick and keeps the bow down at low speeds, all porpoising was eliminated and trimming it out is more effective on the Bayliner, it pulls the bow up. I don't know about top speed as I haven't tried that by myself yet with it on, by myself before without the hydrofoil running a 3 blade 14 1/4X21 I would top out at 50MPH/4100RPM. I never had any problem on my Glastron on the cavitation plate as far as the hydrofoil damaging it. Thanks.

 

[solar7647]

Re: Stingray Hydrofoil

I have an stingray XRIII on my 87 Sundowner and love it! Just remember that this device allows you to get out of the hole and on plane faster thus allowing you too switch to a higher pitch prop, this will make up for any lost top end speed and then some. Good LLuck!

 

[mperu99]

Re: Stingray Hydrofoil

I had (THATS RIGHT HAD) a stingray XRIII until this weekend... I am new to boating so i dont go fast enough to plane out , and i wanted to drop the bow at lower speeds, so I spent the money on the XRIII (Drilless) what a P.O.S! it left on the 3rd day i had my boat out.. my anode and hydrofoil GONE! I have been reading lots of people are loosing their hydrofoils as well.. its a common loss.
the drilless idea is great but i honestly think the design is **** poor.
Using the Anode (trim tab) to hold the hydrofoil, and thats the main place to hold it. Well once the bolt gets loose.. you can say bye-bye to that hydrofoil (XRIII)

Maybe i should have bought those smart tabs to begin with!!! at least THEY bolt directly to the transom!

 

[WAVENBYE2]

Re: Stingray Hydrofoil

When I first bought my boat I ran her with out the hydrofoil on the Ohio river and L.B.L lakes and had a real bad porposing prob, #1 new to boats with lack of experience so I started seeing what all the cool looking buttons are for on throddle and started my own personal growth, My wife and I went to wally world and in the boating section I saw the Stingray hydrofoil and bought it, installed it and we went to the lake that weekend, what a difference!! The porposing was gone and I learned my trim and tilt that weekend and had a significant change than with out it and was happy with hydrofoil, it was like a completely different boat and was very happy, Then I got on Iboats and was wanting to learn every thing I could about my boat, inside and out, and had heard and learned that the hydrofoil puts alot of stress on your sterndrive and transom, where the tabs are fixed to your hull and puts no stress on the out drive, I recently damaged my lower unit and had a new/used lower put on, so now going to put the smart tabs instead of the whale tail "WHY" I have been coming here to Iboats for a long time and have learn over the years to trust the advice that I have gotten here from these guys, I have been helped out tremendously here from being a newbee to now an experienced boater, I know what I know because of my own determination and all the help I've gotten here, I would not know what I know if it wasn't for all of these guys help in a much shorter period of time VRS. learning on my own. I am now switching to the smart tabs so I don't put so much stress on my Sterndrive or damage my transom. Hydrofoil lifts the boat with stern drive, Smart tabs lift the boat with the hull.

 

[U.S.S. Too Tall]

Re: Stingray Hydrofoil

I got on Iboats and was wanting to learn every thing I could about my boat, inside and out, and had heard and learned that the hydrofoil puts alot of stress on your sterndrive and transom, where the tabs are fixed to your hull and puts no stress on the out drive, I recently damaged my lower unit and had a new/used lower put on, so now going to put the smart tabs instead of the whale tail "WHY" I have been coming here to Iboats for a long time and have learn over the years to trust the advice that I have gotten here from these guys, I have been helped out tremendously here from being a newbee. I know what I know because of my own determination and all the help I've gotten here, I would not know what I know if it wasn't for all of these guys help. Hydrofoil lifts the boat with stern drive, Smart tabs lift the boat with the hull.

Wavenbye2 I took the liberty of editing your quote a little bit, as I am not an experienced boater by any means. But I think that you hit the nail on the head.

Having just bought our boat this year, the wife and I are learning as we go. (I wanted to use the expression "sink or swim" but think thats poor taste!!) We bought it while we were camping, and after a few small problems with carb and fuel lines, had it running great, thanks to the guys at the shop. Anyway, while waiting for the work to be done, we walked the campground checking out other boats. Some had the hydrofoil, while more (mostly larger) had the tabs. I remember talking to one owner that had the hydrofoil on his I/O, he said that he loved it, and his wife said that she did too as it took out a lot of the "bounce". Not having extra money this year for the little things (minus a new starter and relay) it was just on the list for later. Finding and reading everything that I can on this site, and your post, has helped me to determine that I dont want this foil.

I am a little put off by drillin holes into anything. Outdrive, but really the transom. Reading yours, and other, posts, I realize that I dont want to put MORE stress on the outdrive and motor. Having a OMC, I dont need to stress it anymore than it already is, because nobody works on these anymore!!:facepalm: I still dont want to put holes into the transom, I dont think that I need that much "power" to get on plane faster.

I have been looking into new props the last few days. I have added a little damage to mine, and dont have a spare in the boat..... I read the difference between 3 and 4 blade props, the 4 blade gets you on plane faster, stays there longer when slowing down, better handling..etc.... I think that maybe the way that I go. I have the 3 on now, I think that I may get the four and try it out. I will need to investigate what pitch I have on now, but thats small stuff...

Again, thanks to all the people with WAY more experience than me, helping me though all of my stupid questions!!!
Like what would you recommend for I/O, 3 or 4 blade?

 

[chriscraft254]

Re: Stingray Hydrofoil

Everyone here should read this ! http://www.nauticusinc.com/pdf/nauticus_smart_tabs_tech_info.pdf

If you think a hydro foil does the same thing that tabs do ,you are wrong. A hyrofoil like the tabs will get you on plane faster, but what good is that if it makes the boat unstable or ineffecient after on a plane? Seriously, read the info in the link, it is very good information on boat attitude, covers hydro folis, trim tabs and motor trim. Happy reading

The op asked if he should install it, imo, no, he shouldn't because there is a much better product out there! Nauticus tabs! John doesn't have to sell anything, the tabs sell themselves. Thousands of customers being amazed by his product speaks for itself! Op, if I were you, I would sell the hydro foil and buy a set of Nauticus trim tabs, there cheap, easy to install and you will be amazed at the performance you will acheive with them. Have had them on my boat for two years, best upgrade I made to my boat.

For those of you that are happy with your hydro foil and think were just trying to shove some other product down your throat, this is what I have to say. I will bet you the cost of a set of nauticus trim tabs, that if you ever tried Nauticus tabs, you would throw the hydro foil in the garbage or atleast never use it again.

My boat weights almost 8000 lbs and these are by far the best improvement I have made to my boat. And I have made alot of improvements. The tabs do everything ,plus some, that Nauticus has claimed and multiple boating magazines have claimed. By the way, the cost of the tabs would probably be paid for in one season with the amount of fuel you will save by having your boat perform like she always should have. Also, drilling holes in the transom is not an issue, for one the holes are small, put the small screws in with 5200, end of story. Guess no one has drilled holes to put transducers on either!?

John, I have never had the chance to thank you for this wonderful product. Awesome, just awesome!!!!!!! Thankyou!!!!!!!

 

[chriscraft254]

Re: Stingray Hydrofoil

You especially should read this link! http://www.nauticusinc.com/pdf/nauticus_smart_tabs_tech_info.pdf You are simply wrong, they do not do the same thing as tabs do. Hydrofoils are very limited in improving performance, they actually can cause worse performance in many areas. Nauticus tabs will help in multiple areas of performance. The link seriously is a good edjucation for anyone that believes that Hyro foils or trimming of the motor do the same thing as tabs. Heck, its a good read for anyone who owns a boat!!

He's not asking if he should buy tabs,someone gave him a foil and he wants to know if he should try it.

If you think about it they both do the exact same thing a different way,give lift to the stern of the boat, one does it by lifting via the motor the other by lifting the hull but they both do the exact same job a different way.

Someday someone will come up with something other than smart tabs and everyone will be on here saying "I used to run tabs but they are hanging in my garage now because I run a ....... now"

They do the exact same thing a different way.