Stupid me, no oil

[Lou C]

With the actuator my small leak went from small to big to the point when the bilge pump kicked on some to the red ATF wound up in the water! This will cause a fine for sure so I had to fix it. I was able to do it by pulling the exhaust on both sides after pulling out the rear seats…not a fun job but do-able…but if the engine’s out, DO IT!

 

[airshot]

Not always.
I used 2 stroke oil in my motors. Problem was
It was for air-cooled 2 strokes. Black spark plugs in minutes.

A fatal wearing out problem occurs when you use your Marine 2 stroke oil in air cooled machines. They need the higher temperature rated oil due to hotter temperatures in air cooled machines. Chainsaws at WOT for several minutes at a time.

Been using Pennzoil two stroke oil for as far back as I can remember, over 40 years anyway, my container states for tcw3 and for all air cooled two stroke engines. Not only my out boards but weed eater, chainsaws, snowblowers, never a problem !!

 

[cyclops222]

Read the label of 2 stroke oils. They will state for water cooled engines. NOT for air cooled 2 strokes. Been there. The 2 stroke air cooled engine oil will not burn up as cleanly. I used up the 1 gallon of air cooled oil by going WOT for 1 to 2 miles on the way to my dock. It burned off the black plug carbon.

 

[nola mike]

With the actuator my small leak went from small to big to the point when the bilge pump kicked on some to the red ATF wound up in the water! This will cause a fine for sure so I had to fix it. I was able to do it by pulling the exhaust on both sides after pulling out the rear seats…not a fun job but do-able…but if the engine’s out, DO IT!

The actuator needs a rebuild or can I buy a new one?

 

[dingbat]

Read the label of 2 stroke oils. They will state for water cooled engines. NOT for air cooled 2 strokes.

I generally agree, but seeing more and more “multipurpose” 2 stroke oils on the market these days.

2-Cycle and Outboard Engine Oil | Pennzoil®

Pennzoil 2-cycle engine oils meet or exceed the warranty requirements of all leading manufacturers. It helps keeping spark plugs and exhaust ports clean.

www.pennzoil.com

 

[Scott06]

Hardin

I don't think there is enough permatex #3 to overcome dunking the motor mounts in saltwater.. The fact that the inner sleeve was tight enough on the bolt to yank the rubber mount out of the flywheel cover tough to plan for....

I'll have to check my hardin O2 plate as well. I'm in fresh water but you have a chit load of corrosion on it for something that was anodized. I think I can put a bore scope in the sensor hole and see if it looks chewed up. Hate to take it off as it took half an hour to chip off the old gasket..

Have you done a leak down test? I had an engine did a similar overhaul on years ago had good compression but up to 20% leak down ( I quit after 2 cylinders) blows a ton of oil out the rear seal. Either the bores were too out of round , ring gap no good, or hone was inadequate...

 

[Lou C]

Salt water is very challenging. I started spraying all vulnerable ares at the start of each season with Corrision X or now Fluid Film and that helps. Same on the trailer I spray all fasteners and springs 2x a year….
I started using Fluid Film on my old Jeeps as an experiment and I think the lanolin based corrosion reduction sprays work better. This season I'm going to use it on the old 4.3 V6. I can tell you spraying works because it's still on the original oil pan and timing cover and we all know how those rust if not protected. It's been in a salt water environment for nearly a quarter century!
Fix any raw water leaks immediately no matter how small. Advantage of salt water is we never have low water levels besides the tides which are regular. You're never out of the water for a season or more due to low water levels.

 

[Lou C]

Read the label of 2 stroke oils. They will state for water cooled engines. NOT for air cooled 2 strokes. Been there. The 2 stroke air cooled engine oil will not burn up as cleanly. I used up the 1 gallon of air cooled oil by going WOT for 1 to 2 miles on the way to my dock. It burned off the black plug carbon.

There is only one notable exception, Toro or Lawn Boy 2 stroke mowers and snow blowers, were spec'd to get TCW-III because it causes less deposit built up in those low revving 2 strokes (governed to 3600 rpm). Unlike leaf blowers or trimmers or chain saws which can exceed 9,000 rpm. They need the additives that are in the 2 stroke oils for air cooled engines. While I have the Pennzoil all engines oil sitting on a shelf I don't use it! I use TC oil in my saw, trimmer, blower and weed wacker and TCW-III in my Toro 2 stroke snow blower (Suzuki 5hp 2 stroke).

 

[Lou C]

The actuator needs a rebuild or can I buy a new one?

This depends on which one you have, Merc and OMC used an actuator with a rebuildable control valve up to about 1989, after that the valve changed. The cylinder isn't rebuildable as far as I know but that old style control valve can be rebuilt. Why? Well it's the same one used in old style Corvettes and Mustangs, I think they were made by Bendix and there are rebuild kits available.
I have a NOS control valve for my Cobra and a cylinder as well. I saved those for the future and installed a nice used unit that is working fine.
If you have a newer than 1990 transom mount, I'm not sure what your options are, those actuators aren't cheap, close to a grand for a new one.
The worst thing about that job is the cotter pins that OMC and Volvo use to retain the mounting bolts, it was hell on wheels to get them out. After that, not bad. Merc uses a locking tab, might be easier.

 

[nola mike]

Well...
Looks like I have a wet transom. The day I've been dreading. Drilled a couple of holes low down, closeish to cut out and drain plug. It dried up as I got a couple of inches higher. Also doesn't look like it goes all the way through; the rear seemed dry. But definitely there. Guessing maybe the drain plug? But who knows. Right now certainly nothing structural. Any options to mitigate this, or is she a goner? (Also, my "new" felpro RMS shipped without the damn seal. It has a gasket, but no seal. TF? That limits my weekend activities).

 

[Scott06]

Well...
Looks like I have a wet transom. The day I've been dreading. Drilled a couple of holes low down, closeish to cut out and drain plug. It dried up as I got a couple of inches higher. Also doesn't look like it goes all the way through; the rear seemed dry. But definitely there. Guessing maybe the drain plug? But who knows. Right now certainly nothing structural. Any options to mitigate this, or is she a goner? (Also, my "new" felpro RMS shipped without the damn seal. It has a gasket, but no seal. TF? That limits my weekend activities).

Boat was under water , if you look around drain plug there is little to no glass on bottom of wood may have soaked it then.

if it doesn’t go far not sure I would worry

 

[nola mike]

OK, finally made it back down to get some work done, and got stymied again. A bit of progress:

1. Steering cable replaced. Yup, that was for sure an issue. Actuator I can't tell if it was actually leaking or not. Looked more like grease around there. Fingers crossed.
2. Still can't get the damn flywheel off. Using balancer pullers, and the flywheel bolts are *just* too big to get through the slots on the puller. Tired of trying to find the proper size flywheel bolt (rounded 2 of them off), sucked it up and spent $6.50 each at the GM stealership.
3. Soda blasted, degreased, painted the engine. Looks pretty now.
4. Cleaned out the bilge last time down. So disgusting. There was still enough oily river debris that I was using a garden trowel to scoop it out.
5. Cleaned up electrical connections.
6. Got the remnants of the old mount out of the flywheel cover. Pressed in the new one...and it doesn't fit the same as the other side. It's about 2mm lower on the (new one) starboard side than the port side. Hard to screw up I think, since the outer sleeve bottoms out on a lip in the housing. Verified visually that both are tight against the lip. The bottom should be fine because of the fiber washer. Having a hard time figuring out if the top will be affected. I did manage to salvage the mounting bolt by dremel'ing off the inner sleeve.

You can see the inner sleeve recessed on the right, and just a bit proud of the housing on the left.


Dremel vs. inner sleeve of motor mount.


Left to do:
1. Figure out bilge pump mounting.
2. Remove flywheel, change RMS.
3. Clean off manifolds/elbows. Decide whether to install the O2 spacer. I wonder if the issue was Iron-->alu-->iron and having some conductive bolts?
4. Reinstall motor.
5. Fix hole in keel.
6. Go boating?

 

[nola mike]

Finally got that RMS swapped. The old one looked good, I don't think that was the leak. Unfortunately I think it was probably that line from the remote filter. Which would have taken 5 seconds to fix with the engine in the boat. Still nice to have everything cleaned and painted. We're getting rain every time I want to work down here, really slowing it down. Got the flywheel, coupler, housing back on. Forgot that I need to do something with the bilge pump before I put it back in. Weather permitting will hopefully have the engine back in tomorrow.
Before


After new RMS

 

[Scott06]

Finally got that RMS swapped. The old one looked good, I don't think that was the leak. Unfortunately I think it was probably that line from the remote filter. Which would have taken 5 seconds to fix with the engine in the boat. Still nice to have everything cleaned and painted. We're getting rain every time I want to work down here, really slowing it down. Got the flywheel, coupler, housing back on. Forgot that I need to do something with the bilge pump before I put it back in. Weather permitting will hopefully have the engine back in tomorrow.
Before
View attachment 407481 View attachment 407480

After new RMS
View attachment 407479

Yes that rear seal was not leaking, you would have had a chit load of oil back there.

 

[Grub54891]

Mount your bilge pump to a aluminum plate, attach the plate to the side of the stringer so next time you need to service it you can simply slide it out.

 

[nola mike]

Well, might have screwed up. When I pressed in the new mount, I'm not sure if I installed the spacer or not (pretty sure not). Can't tell now. Engine is in the boat, but not hooked up. Do I pull it again, order a new mount, and cost myself more time now, or finish up and see what happens?

 

[nola mike]

That didn't work either. I pulled the flywheel housing back off; doesn't look like there was a spacer on the other side, but I took the new one out, put the spacer in, and now the bottom of the mount extends a good bit below the flywheel housing. Definitely doesn't seem right, and much more pronounced than the other side. The fiber washer wouldn't make contact with the housing if installed with the spacer. Not sure what's going on here. I know there were a lot of superceded part #'s...this appears to be the old style mount (which is what it should be).

 

[nola mike]

Getting close. Put the motor in without the spacer. The alignment is the same as it's always been (not perfect, but I think acceptable). Was able to fire it up on muffs.

1. That O2 spacer was toast. I'd love to have it in there, but that was leaking. Plugs had (I think) some salt deposits on them. I'm going to email Hardin and see what they think.
2. The elbows were suspect. Interestingly, the side with the spacer was the one in better shape. I'll need to keep an eye on them, probably replace next season. Manifolds still look great.
3. PS doesn't look like it's leaking. Turns SOOO much better with the new cable. Of course, now the throttle is sticking...
4. No oil leaking that I can see
4a. I put 4.5 qts in it, and it's showing about 1 qt overfull. I guess I screwed something up when I originally put the dipstick in there (it was "custom", using the original blazer dipstick hole and pan). No way it's overfilled though. There wasn't a drop left in the pan.
5. Wouldn't initially fire up. Realized it wasn't getting fuel. Took a while to chase it to a brittle fuel line. It kept splitting enough to suck air. New fuel line coming.
6. Also, I keep thinking that I've replaced all the electrical. Apparently not so. Found another bad wire, OP switch has failed yet again, and the "waterproof" FP relay needs some encouragement with a tap to engage. New parts coming.

Hopefully can get down there one more day before the weekend. Tasks:
1. Fix hole in the keel. I have poly and biax waiting for me. Probably 3 layers on the outside and one in the ski locker.
2. See if my lift is working. New battery waiting for install.
3. CLEAN. Damn, inside and outside are a disaster. I also need to reinstall the rear benches/supports
4. Wiring from engine-->helm needs to be tucked away.
5. Bilge pump. Still haven't dealt with it.

Go boating? This all seems doable in a day.

 

[ESGWheel]

5. Wouldn't initially fire up. Realized it wasn't getting fuel. Took a while to chase it to a brittle fuel line. It kept splitting enough to suck air. New fuel line coming.

Just curious, how old was the fuel line? thx

 

[nola mike]

Just curious, how old was the fuel line? thx

2015