Submerged engine

[snoski]

Re: Submerged engine

Spend as little as possible and get it running.
It's a Bayliner, save your money...

 

[Big Boat Bay Buster]

Re: Submerged engine

$200 more when you only have $380 in it, is nearly another 50% added. Plus what you all describe is a lot of labor. And if he disassembles the motor, and doesn't reassemble it correctly, he'll have a failure anyway. So why not try it now, and if it breaks, then spend the $200 and all the time to tear down the motor?

$200+$380=$580 Still a very reasonable number for getting a submerged engine back on line. You remind me of those's number crunchers(fudgers) at work I dislike. You can always manipulate numbers to make someone look good or bad.
There is a flip side to the argument of just put it back together. What if 2 cylinders had rings that froze to the rusted walls. The rings are now snapped. After all the labor to tear down what he has apart and put it back together, he would have a $380 boat anchor. Again, You already are deep into it. I would suggest going the extra yard and tear it all down. Inspect the pistons and bearings and everything else carefully and decide.
Their are good arguments either way! The original question was should he save money and not replace rings and bearings. I just wanted to post that it would be inexpensive to replace these items.
I hope the boats not water logged.
Just don't skimp when it comes to safety. I'm sure you know to replace the starter and alt. with marine parts, etc.

 

[Silvertip]

Re: Submerged engine

I have the same thoughts as Big Boat -- with one exception! I assume the engine is out of the boat at this point. If not, and you really want to do this on the cheap then it's your call and you may get lucky. However, if the engine is out of the boat, my gosh man, you'll never have a better chance to examine the engine internals and correct anything that's wrong. You may actually find something wrong in the lower end that the original owner sunk the boat for insurance money. Yes -- I know that's a rotten thought but to say it doesn't happen would mean one is living under a rock. You reap the benefit by doing a little work up front. Gaskets, bearings, and rings are cheap and any library in town has shop manuals that can help you reassemble the engine properly. By not disassembling it, you run the risk of screwing up what would have been a perfectly good engine.

 

[mkast]

Re: Submerged engine

I have a suggestion, download the maintenance manual (Don S).
Mercruiser will tell you what parts are serviceable and what isn't.
How difficult can that be?

 

[fraannk]

Re: Submerged engine

The engine is completely apart. I have it sitting on an engine stand waiting to see what kind of response I was going to get from this forum. There is nothing wrong with the engine. It just spent some time under water. I was hoping that I could just put it back together now that I have it cleaned up inside and have checked it out. I am POSITIVE that none of the rings were frozen to the cylinder walls.

This is a low hour engine. I am sure the rings and bearings don't need to be replaced. My main question is...

Would it be better to

A) Leave the rod, main bearings, and pistons alone and make sure everything is clean and put it back together.

2) Pull the rod and main caps, pull the pistons and lube and reinstall the SAME bearings and pistons with the same rings.

 

[TilliamWe]

Re: Submerged engine

Big Boat you can dislike number crunchers all you want. But when you start talking additional hundreds of dollars ( and a lot of time that a qualified mechanic should be performing) being spent on a sunken Bayliner, then you are in a money losing situation. Just cause you want it to be perfect doesn't mean it has be. Throwing good money at a loser still makes it a loser.
Also Big Boat, read the first post, he has cleaned the cylinder walls... so that means the rings are not frozen.

 

[fishmen111]

Re: Submerged engine

At least stick some dang $0.99 plastigauge on the mains and rods to determine your clearances while you have it apart. To me, a low hour/sumerged engine is an oxymoron. But that's just me.

 

[180shabah]

Re: Submerged engine

....then you are in a money losing situation. Just cause you want it to be perfect doesn't mean it has be. Throwing good money at a loser still makes it a loser...

What's wrong with you TW? Don't you watch the news? This is the new American way.

 

[Silvertip]

Re: Submerged engine

Since when is checking bearing clearances and inspecting them and the journals thowing money away. It costs you nothing unless you replace them. And if you replace them it's because they need to be replaced or you actually want extra insurance. That isn't throwing money away. It's a situation where you aren't thowing away an opportunity. This is akin to the dude I saw a few days ago that hung a new exhaust system on his import car but was apparently too cheap to buy a couple of hangers. The system was hanging down close to the road and he finally hit a bump that snagged the edge of the muffler and ripped the entire thing off the car and he ran over it. That's being "penney wise and pound foolish". Why go through all the trouble of pulling an engine, not inspecting something that is right in front of you, and then installing the engine again only to have it go "poof" because you neglected to inspect what was right in front of you. You cannot prove the rings have not been damaged unless you pull the pistons. There's a good chance they aren't so that's a risk you take. However I see no reason not to check the bearings.

 

[Big Boat Bay Buster]

Re: Submerged engine

There is nothing wrong with the engine. It just spent some time under water.

That's great!!! But seriously, I do get your overall point

Would it be better to

A) Leave the rod, main bearings, and pistons alone and make sure everything is clean and put it back together.

2) Pull the rod and main caps, pull the pistons and lube and reinstall the SAME bearings and pistons with the same rings.

I VOTE (#2)---You have gone this far, why not take the one extra step and inspect the pistons & bearings. The use of a manual and some "dang $0.99 plastigauge" will help as suggested. The manual will explain what a bad bearing looks like.

Big Boat you can dislike number crunchers all you want. But when you start talking additional hundreds of dollars ( and a lot of time that a qualified mechanic should be performing) being spent on a sunken Bayliner, then you are in a money losing situation. Just cause you want it to be perfect doesn't mean it has be. Throwing good money at a loser still makes it a loser.
Also Big Boat, read the first post, he has cleaned the cylinder walls... so that means the rings are not frozen.

OK Lieutenant Commander, I get your point

FRAANNK-- To me, pulling the engine and tearing it down is the pain in the A** part. Rebuilding the motor is the fun and interesting part. But bear in mind you have to be thorough in inspecting, parts replacement and rebuild---All because you want to avoid the "Pain in the A**" part!! The real savings is avoiding the machine shop which seems to be a given in your situation. I'm sure you will be fine either way you go. If you do tear it down, hopefully it will look as good as mine did before it went back together, Good Luck,
Chris

 

[fraannk]

Re: Submerged engine

Wow, that's purdy! I doubt mine will be that nice because I don't plan on hot tanking the block.

I will take the caps and mains off and use plasti-gage on them. I have been an aircraft mechanic for 20+ years so I know what a bad bearing looks like. I just don't rebuild too many V8s. Since I am pulling the caps I will probably pull the pistons and knock the glaze off the cylinder walls.

Of course I would never do this to an aircraft engine but I always have an oar in the boat and the lakes around here aren't terribly big.

 

[chiefalen]

Re: Submerged engine

Big bay i must be getting old, cause i'd rather see a sweet motor like that than pamela anderson hmmm in a compromising position. Ha.

What is that, now that looks perfect.

10-15 years ago would have been different. Ha.

Can i post something, a piece of metal under fresh water will never rust, soon as it hits the air it will start rusting.

Add salt and it will triple, maybe even more the rate of rusting action.

And rust never sleeps.

 

[KJSmitty]

Re: Submerged engine

I would do just as you are thinking Fraannk,

However, me being the anal type that I am I would disassemble the engine entirely to check it right and replace as required. But, I would plan on using everything as is unless it absolutely needed replacement to facilitate a better, though financially smart outcome.

Now, the most important thing about re-using any/all of your internal parts is to get them back in the exact place and direction as removed. This is most important for your pistons/rings, bearings, lifters etc.. However you do it, get them back in the same hole, same cap, journal, same piston etc..

As "B4" sated above, rebuilding/assembly is the fun part!! Take the time to do it right and enjoy the process.

Cheers and good luck!

 

[TilliamWe]

Re: Submerged engine

Ok, fraank, now that we know you have the motor out on a stand, and are a freaking Mechanic, I too say to pull the main bearing and check them out. Since you have the mechanical ability, get the manual that gives all the specs for your engine and take it apart and check it all out. If it all checks out, reinstall the parts and the motor and go boating!!!

 

[fraannk]

Re: Submerged engine

Thanks Smitty.

Yes, I did plan on making sure everything went back in the original position. I don't think the engine would last very long at all if I didn't do that. That was VERY good advice!

 

[abj87]

Re: Submerged engine

If your honing the cylinders you might as well throw new rings in it as you have it torn down its around 60 bucks for a set.

 

[chiefalen]

Re: Submerged engine

Using a punch, one dot, on each side of the bearing cap, 2 dots next etc. that you would know the exact position of each cap.

You also want to make sure you don't clog any oil channels.

Good luck ! May the force be with you.

 

[mkast]

Re: Submerged engine

I have been an aircraft mechanic for 20+ years so I know what a bad bearing looks like.

This is not to upset anyone...
A&P's use the manufacturer's maintenance manual to find serviceable limits for components.
What is the big deal here?

 

[fraannk]

Re: Submerged engine

Not sure who you weren't trying to upset... but ALL good mechanics use the manufacturers maintenance manual to determine serviceable parts.

 

[Robj]

Re: Submerged engine

Wow, that's purdy! I doubt mine will be that nice because I don't plan on hot tanking the block.

I will take the caps and mains off and use plasti-gage on them. I have been an aircraft mechanic for 20+ years so I know what a bad bearing looks like. I just don't rebuild too many V8s. Since I am pulling the caps I will probably pull the pistons and knock the glaze off the cylinder walls.

Of course I would never do this to an aircraft engine but I always have an oar in the boat and the lakes around here aren't terribly big.

This is the right call, IMO. If you really want to be cheap, inspect it, hone it, check bearing clearances and if OK, put it back together. But personally I would replace the bearings and rings.

Have a great day,

Rob.