Sunken Scout, sunken spirits

Todtc

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Re: Sunken Scout, sunken spirits

Isn't the Scout foam filled, how could it fill with water with open scuppers to allow the water back out?

I don't understand, what is below the deck, isn't there foam there?

There is no foam under the deck that I can see from the deck hatch.
 

Home Cookin'

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Re: Sunken Scout, sunken spirits

something's still not right. Hopefully your insurance guy can figure it out. Vandals launched my 17' without the plug and the pump ran 10 hours or more off one old battery, and it kept up with it OK. Yuor bilge pumps would have kept up with the trickle from the hatch plate. Was it working properly, with discharging correctly?

If your scuppers had growth on them, the boat's been sitting too low too long--as if it retained water in the hull that the bilge pump didn't clear. How did it run?

One reason I'm so interested is b/c my sister is thinking about buying one, and also a friend has had one like yours no problems for years.
 

Todtc

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Re: Sunken Scout, sunken spirits

something's still not right. Hopefully your insurance guy can figure it out. Vandals launched my 17' without the plug and the pump ran 10 hours or more off one old battery, and it kept up with it OK. Yuor bilge pumps would have kept up with the trickle from the hatch plate. Was it working properly, with discharging correctly?

If your scuppers had growth on them, the boat's been sitting too low too long--as if it retained water in the hull that the bilge pump didn't clear. How did it run?

One reason I'm so interested is b/c my sister is thinking about buying one, and also a friend has had one like yours no problems for years.

I don't think the water reached the bilge pump. That's the problem. With the deck hatch sealed the water stayed on the deck and water came IN the scuppers instead of draining OUT. From what I have read on various sites, this is a design flaw with the boat. The scuppers are still partially submerged even with no one on board and the factory 90 HP Yamaha mounted on the transom.
 

Home Cookin'

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Re: Sunken Scout, sunken spirits

If the bilge was dry, the water on the deck would not sink the boat. it would not fill higher than the waterline on the scuppers outside. Your dry empty sealed bilge is a floatation device.
If your scuppers were 1" below the waterline you would get 1" of water. If your deck was level (and it's not) you have 1" of water which would weigh about as much as a cooler of beer.
 

haulnazz15

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Re: Sunken Scout, sunken spirits

If the bilge was dry, the water on the deck would not sink the boat. it would not fill higher than the waterline on the scuppers outside. Your dry empty sealed bilge is a floatation device.
If your scuppers were 1" below the waterline you would get 1" of water. If your deck was level (and it's not) you have 1" of water which would weigh about as much as a cooler of beer.

Yes, but as it fills with water, the back end gets heavier, sinking lower into the water. The lower it goes, the more water comes in.
 

smokeonthewater

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Re: Sunken Scout, sunken spirits

I agree.... the boat didn't go under with a dry bilge.... the water on deck had to be leaking into the bilge and the pumps/batts either could not keep up or failed
 

tashasdaddy

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Re: Sunken Scout, sunken spirits

improper dock lines cause that boat to sink. if the stern line had enough slack it would not have sank. should have had bow and stern line, with spring line.
 

salty87

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Re: Sunken Scout, sunken spirits

i dunno, i'm thinking there was already something going on. the scuppers shouldn't have been so low with just you standing in it. i'm going with wet foam. unless that boat was rebuilt, it has whatever buoyancy is required from a manu, it's not too old to pre-date the reg.

easy bet since the foam's wet now. :)
 

scoutabout

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Re: Sunken Scout, sunken spirits

Just so I understand about the mooring lines. Does this boat live in a tidal area? Presumably then when the water level drops with short lines your boat tips over? (can you tell I'm an inland boater?:rolleyes:)

Anyway, when you get your boat back, for good measure, switch out those scupper flaps for the ball type of valve. They do let some water in at rest but the advantage is that if they fall below the waterline due to weight, the water pressure on the ball makes a much better seal than those flaps. Still probably not a hundred percent but not bad -- especially if you take the time to clean the seal faces.

In the pic below you can see the housings on either side of the engine. (Disregard arrows -- they're from another topic on engine mounts...)


rearrigging2.jpg


You can just see the port housing here between the swim platform and engine. It gives you some idea of where they sit relative to the waterline with no weight in the boat.

skibar.jpg
 

high'n'dry

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Re: Sunken Scout, sunken spirits

Even if the lines were too short for a high tide, a hull with positive buoyancy should have emptied through the scuppers and come back on top.
 

tashasdaddy

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Re: Sunken Scout, sunken spirits

it is at low tide the short lines holds the dock side up, while the water side drops, thus finally getting to an angle that rain water pools on the low side, increasing weight, and then the water comes over the gunnel, sinking that side.
 

tx1961whaler

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Re: Sunken Scout, sunken spirits

Looks like in was on a floating dock to me, based on the Pic (very tall concrete pile at the end of the dock; dock slides up and down on the pile)
 

high'n'dry

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Re: Sunken Scout, sunken spirits

A foam filled hull self bailing hull, like that of a Whaler, once the lines came to slack, will self bail and come back on top refloating itself.

I thought the Scout had similar capability, apparently not.
 

Home Cookin'

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Re: Sunken Scout, sunken spirits

Tdaddy desribes what happens, too, when an edge of the boat gets hung up on the side of the pier and the tide drops.
A full floatation boat should stay upright, but if a boat is full of water, it takes very little to roll them--a butterfly landing on the rails will do it. Been there.
If a boat has floatation, the scuppers or other holes are open, the bilge sealed: the water from outside (river) will come in to reach an equilibrium and stop. It won't keep filling in. Lower one side, raise the other, doesn't change it. Unless your bilge is not sealed and when you dip, you find an overflow point.
If water comes in from another source (rain) and the scuppers are open, even if submerged, the water will flow out and the boat stay at the same equilibrium. A severe downpour, like a swamping wave, could overpower that drainage, though, and cause it to dip to a point where water gets in to the bilge--such as over the transom and through the control wires' port.
Scoutabout's photos show that a scout with a dry bilge won't sink.
I reviewed this case with a friend friday night, who has that boat for 10 years or so. The only explanation is a bilge full of water and a malfunctioning pump.
 

scoutabout

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Re: Sunken Scout, sunken spirits

You know - this has been a rather humbling experience (ya..boo hoo, I can hear you saying...your boat ain't sunk).

But for all my sentimental blathering about the build quality of my precious Scout over the last few years, this episode has brought to light some serious design flaws I had never even considered.

1). The deck (or sole :p) hatch is fastened by just one twist latch. Really, it should have about four to produce a really good seal considering the size of the lid. The latch itself is also constantly getting fouled by sand and grit so I'm tempted to leave it unlocked during the day and have done so on a number of occasions. An easy thing to forget come the end of the weekend. Even when locked down, when I throw five or six buckets worth of water on the deck to scrub it down, I can then usually get the bilge pump to cough up at least a cupful or two. Prolonged, unsupervised presence of water of any serious depth on the deck would not be good.

2).The hatch itself is too far aft - its rearmost edge is probably only 18 inches from the transom. It goes that far back so you can get at the bilge and livewell pumps. I'd much rather have a deck plate screwed down over them thats got a great seal all the way round and have a hatch lid that's smaller and located further forward. I don't need to lower a paddle horizontally into the bilge. Sliding it down and back there at an angle through a small opening would be fine.

Here's a topview from Scout's website of my Dorado dual console without the optional rear seat. What's interesting is the placement they show of the hatch is incorrect - at least for my 2004 it is. Mine starts well aft of the seat pedestals and runs much further back. This - as pointed out by Pascoe in that article - increases risk of leaking from any water that creeps forward from the scuppers. What you can see though is the inadequacy of that single latching point on a hatch of that size.

Dorado.jpg


3). And I'm not sure what the answer is on this one - but I think maybe those scuppers are an inch or two too close to the waterline for real comfort. The problem with locating them higher though is that you would never get the last three inches of water out of the boat, unless you put the nose up under power and forced it out. At rest you'd either have to manually vent it to the bilge or use a handheld pump for the last bit.

Anyway, the only thing I can really do is look into modifying my hatch to add more latches. I'm just parnoid enough to consider adding one to each end, and two more either side of the existing one. That shouldn't be too difficult. It will be a pain to flip them all just to get a paddle out but I think it would make the boat much, much more resilient to leaking into the bilge and therefore, more seaworthy.
 

smokeonthewater

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Re: Sunken Scout, sunken spirits

and/or you could cut a smaller hatch into the fore end of it and glue the main hatch down with silicone... the small hatch would give you access and if needed you could rip the main hatch open with minimal effort
 

high'n'dry

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Re: Sunken Scout, sunken spirits

You know - this has been a rather humbling experience (ya..boo hoo, I can hear you saying...your boat ain't sunk).

But for all my sentimental blathering about the build quality of my precious Scout over the last few years, this episode has brought to light some serious design flaws I had never even considered.

1). The deck (or sole :p) hatch is fastened by just one twist latch. Really, it should have about four to produce a really good seal considering the size of the lid. The latch itself is also constantly getting fouled by sand and grit so I'm tempted to leave it unlocked during the day and have done so on a number of occasions. An easy thing to forget come the end of the weekend. Even when locked down, when I throw five or six buckets worth of water on the deck to scrub it down, I can then usually get the bilge pump to cough up at least a cupful or two. Prolonged, unsupervised presence of water of any serious depth on the deck would not be good.

2).The hatch itself is too far aft - its rearmost edge is probably only 18 inches from the transom. It goes that far back so you can get at the bilge and livewell pumps. I'd much rather have a deck plate screwed down over them thats got a great seal all the way round and have a hatch lid that's smaller and located further forward. I don't need to lower a paddle horizontally into the bilge. Sliding it down and back there at an angle through a small opening would be fine.

Here's a topview from Scout's website of my Dorado dual console without the optional rear seat. What's interesting is the placement they show of the hatch is incorrect - at least for my 2004 it is. Mine starts well aft of the seat pedestals and runs much further back. This - as pointed out by Pascoe in that article - increases risk of leaking from any water that creeps forward from the scuppers. What you can see though is the inadequacy of that single latching point on a hatch of that size.

Dorado.jpg


3). And I'm not sure what the answer is on this one - but I think maybe those scuppers are an inch or two too close to the waterline for real comfort. The problem with locating them higher though is that you would never get the last three inches of water out of the boat, unless you put the nose up under power and forced it out. At rest you'd either have to manually vent it to the bilge or use a handheld pump for the last bit.

Anyway, the only thing I can really do is look into modifying my hatch to add more latches. I'm just parnoid enough to consider adding one to each end, and two more either side of the existing one. That shouldn't be too difficult. It will be a pain to flip them all just to get a paddle out but I think it would make the boat much, much more resilient to leaking into the bilge and therefore, more seaworthy.

You know, you have a really nice boat, I love that thing. Other than adding a second pump, I would not go about modifying my boat. I know that picture showing a Scout flooded is disheartening but that was probably caused by a comedy of errors that you will not repeat.
 

Home Cookin'

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Re: Sunken Scout, sunken spirits

agreed--solve the problem of why it is sitting lower than it should. In your photo the scupper is above water. Yo ahev a good pboat, and a popular one; I don't think youhave a design problem.
 
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