Supplemental basement heating

[Howard Sterndrive]

Re: Supplemental basement heating

1) Gas fired firplace insert (there is a fireplace in the basement) - Could be controlled via a remote and would be pretty economical to run and nice appearance - This is my favorite, yet over my desired budget (Minimum ~$1400-1600)

that gets my vote- if you aren't moving in the next 3 years, you'll get your money and enjoyment out of it.

2) Blue flame wall hung vent free heater - cost effective operation, inexpensive to purchase/install - Not so attractive - Poor WAF (wife acceptance factor)

never - too dangerous. I'm glad they are illegal where I am.

does anyone have experience with the hydronic Electric BB heaters - are they more efficient that the standard BB heaters?

All electric baseboard heaters are 100% efficient

 

[rogerwa]

Re: Supplemental basement heating

Bingo!!.... I wonder if contractors leave out basement ductwork in unfinished basements because they have no idea where partitions will be installed and it would be a waste of effort? Remember that typically cold air returns run in stud cavities and joist cavities just by "lining" the top ogf the stud or joist space with a tin sheet....not usually enclosed ducts per se.



Agree completely. This has solved the basement problem in my house so completely that I had to insulate the INSIDE wall of the small room where I store wine to keep it from warming up to the basement temp. I even have a vent to the outside in there to let in cold air....


And Suzuki, I don't think you hijacked anything. You've done nothing but offer an opinion, in a very civil tone, and there has been a lot of discussion. Roger, the OP, is really getting his money's worth I would say!

I certainly have gotten my money's worth out of this as it opened up a whole new line of thought and provided a potentially very cheap solution.

As for running the fan full time, I'm a little concerned about wearing the fan out.

I will try moving the vents to the lower level, opening up a return and see how it works. If it does do anything, I can always add the BB heat later.

I will post a diag later for consultation on placement.

Thanks everyone for their opinions..

 

[SuzukiChopper]

Re: Supplemental basement heating

I'm beginning to think that if everyone else has cold air intakes in their basements, that even though mine isn't finished, with the in-floor heat I might add at least maybe one to the furnace room wall that faces the living area. Maybe it'll help the in-floor heating system a little.

Maybe I should apply for that 'heat efficiency' job now that I've learned something new that apparently no one around my area knows about or is using old school techniques. I know I'll be mentioning this to a few people. Still want to check out my buddies house and see if the builders here are even doing this. Guess you really do learn something new every day.

 

[Tim Frank]

Re: Supplemental basement heating

As for running the fan full time, I'm a little concerned about wearing the fan out.

Don't worry about that.
They are designed for full time use....if anything, the normal starts and stops are analogous to city driving in your car.....highway driving at a constant speed is usually easier on your car....same with your fan.
That's why there is either a switch on the furnace or the thermostat to turn it on 24/7.
Many fan motors are equipped with oil tubes at the bearing ends. A drop of elctric motor oil in each at the end of the season is a good maintenance task, and worth doing if you are so inclined. Some are sealed and you can't oil them.

 

[rogerwa]

Re: Supplemental basement heating

I did look downstairs and found that there is a cold air return that is close to the flor, but the heating vent is up near the ceiling. Is there is issue with the vent and the return being close together?

Also, in thinking through this, I can see the logic of running the fan full time. I can see how it would equalize the temp throughout the house.

As I said before my furnace has a two speed fan that has a computer module that adjusts the speed of the fan depending on the duration and frequency of the heating cycles. If this feature woudl keep the fan running at the low speed during non-heat periods that would be optimal. I just don't know if it is that smart.

 

[Tim Frank]

Re: Supplemental basement heating

If the cold air return and the heating vent are close together, you can get what is called "short-circuiting" for obvious reasons. There will be a fair amount of circulation that will be directed from the heat outlet directly to the cold-air return. The heat duct would not be difficult to relocate a bit further away.
Also, is there only one heat outlet for the entire basement? That is nowhere near enough input for the size of space that you stated.

 

[rogerwa]

Re: Supplemental basement heating

Here is a pic of the basement - roughly.. I have highlighted possible changes.

 

[Tim Frank]

Re: Supplemental basement heating

Problem is that your duct outlets will all still be in the middle of the footprint.
The best place for the heat ducts would be on the outside walls
I'd be inclined to add a new heat duct on the outside wall.across from the furnace...that should be OK with the way your joists likely run. Leave the existing ones.
It is not the end of the world if the heat ducts are up top, just makes it imperative to ensure circulation by extended fan operation and locate cold air returns low, and as far from hot airs as is practical.
Are there two existing heat outlets and are they both ducted, or is the one on the wall just a grill?
Is that cold air return just a wall grate between the two rooms? or is it ducted to the furnace?
If not, run a 6" duct from your cold air plenum down to that grate.
Is it a solid ceiling or suspended ceiling c/w removable tile panels?

 

[rogerwa]

Re: Supplemental basement heating

I do not have much choice about putting them on the outside walls as there is not space between the concrete and the wall, or not much, even if I could snake the feed through the joists. My only choic in that scenario would be to put them on the celing.

I could put one under the staircase as I have access behind there.

The ceiling is drywall and is attached directly to the joists..

All vents or returns are ducted..

 

[Tim Frank]

Re: Supplemental basement heating

Under the stairs would be a pretty good location,
AND maybe relocate the proposed new one to the corner where the utility room wall meets the outside wall,
AND don't yet move the heat duct down to floor level, it is probably better to keep it as far from the cold air return as possible.

 

[aspeck]

Re: Supplemental basement heating

I agree with Tim on his last thoughts for duct placement. Should provide good air movement. Make sure your return duct is large enough to handle the volume of air from the vent ducts. It needs to be sized small enough so there is some pressure build up for air flow, but large enough so the air does flow. There are formulas for this. Also, depending on how the upstairs is ducted, you need to be careful you are not robbing air for there. There is a science to this, and I am not that scientist.

 

[Tim Frank]

Re: Supplemental basement heating

So, quick review....
1) Fan on 24/7 is probably your cheapest and maybe most effective single step. If you have a fairly accurate thermometer, you might take temp readings at floor level, 1/2 way to ceiling, and at ceiling level in a couple of spots before you start. Allow a few days to assss results.2) Tweak the ductwork. Keep taking temp readings and see how you have progressed.
3) Be sure that the new ducts have internal dampers so that they can be balanced or at least tuned a bit. You did say that closing outlets did not have any effect....but you might want to try again after you are running the fan constantly.