Suzuki thinks that a hole in the block caused by salt water is just normal wear

[Chris1956]

Re: Suzuki thinks that a hole in the block caused by salt water is just normal wear

I am with the OP. Materials have evolved greatly since the 50s and before. Actually that is one of the most important factors. Engineers could design all kinds of new things, if they had more advanced materials to work with. Suzuki motors should be at least as corrosion resistant as OB's from the 50s and 60s, as materials are much better now.

 

[dingbat]

Re: Suzuki thinks that a hole in the block caused by salt water is just normal wear

The chemistry of the aluminum should make salt water corrosion nonexistent. Manufacturers can do this.

ugh.....35 years in the metals industry at the producer level. Worked on the research team at Alcan back in the late 80's looking into using aluminum alloy frames on automobiles. Forget more about metallurgy than....... If you have a method of preventing galvanic and electrolysis corrosion in aluminum alloys in the presence of dissimilar metals in an electrolyte (i.e.saltwater) or presence of stray currents, the industry is all ears.

The aluminum isn't the problem The problem is the relation, at the atomic level, between the elements contained within the various metal alloys used in the assembly. The interaction of the various elements is well understood and precautions are taken to minimize these effects but.......its a balancing act. Something as simple as changing a screw made from alloy X to an alloy Y screw or a problem in your electrical system can upset the balance, setting off a chain of events that leads to a catastrophic failure in no time at all.

Holes just don't happen. Hole are the result of a chain of events. Until the cause is determined, it's utter nonsense to accuse the manufacturer of neglect or producing inferior products. How many lower units are eaten up every year by stray currents from shore hookup? Is this a manufacturer's defect or a maintenance defect?

FWIW: The scenario of the airplane in the pacific actually happened some years ago. While the airline later made some design changes, the airline manufacturer wasn't held responsible because the quality of inspection and maintenance programs were deemed deficient. Had the programs been adequate, the problem would have been caught prior to the failure

 

[pootnic]

Re: Suzuki thinks that a hole in the block caused by salt water is just normal wear

Boatkpny...cars/trucks up here around me still rust out.
If there not undercoated annually,it doesn't take much more than 5 years.
As far as your motor,I'd be pissed to but wouldn't look for anything from the company...

 

[82rude]

Re: Suzuki thinks that a hole in the block caused by salt water is just normal wear

thanks dingbat! I also spent 35 years in the steel industry for Algoma Steel which is now Essar Steel.mind you I was in production .excellent thought out answer.

 

[boatkpny]

Re: Suzuki thinks that a hole in the block caused by salt water is just normal wear

All zincs changed every year

 

[boatkpny]

Re: Suzuki thinks that a hole in the block caused by salt water is just normal wear

ugh.....35 years in the metals industry at the producer level. Worked on the research team at Alcan back in the late 80's looking into using aluminum alloy frames on automobiles. Forget more about metallurgy than....... If you have a method of preventing galvanic and electrolysis corrosion in aluminum alloys in the presence of dissimilar metals in an electrolyte (i.e.saltwater) or presence of stray currents, the industry is all ears.

The aluminum isn't the problem The problem is the relation, at the atomic level, between the elements contained within the various metal alloys used in the assembly. The interaction of the various elements is well understood and precautions are taken to minimize these effects but.......its a balancing act. Something as simple as changing a screw made from alloy X to an alloy Y screw or a problem in your electrical system can upset the balance, setting off a chain of events that leads to a catastrophic failure in no time at all.

Holes just don't happen. Hole are the result of a chain of events. Until the cause is determined, it's utter nonsense to accuse the manufacturer of neglect or producing inferior products. How many lower units are eaten up every year by stray currents from shore hookup? Is this a manufacturer's defect or a maintenance defect?

FWIW: The scenario of the airplane in the pacific actually happened some years ago. While the airline later made some design changes, the airline manufacturer wasn't held responsible because the quality of inspection and maintenance programs were deemed deficient. Had the programs been adequate, the problem would have been caught prior to the failure

So why is the boat next to mine still going strong with a 1971 100 hp Evinrude? I can go up and down the dock and find older engines, Mercs, Yamas, Johnsons and Evinrudes still running? What do they know that Suzuki doesn't? Oh, luck of the draw or inferior production methods?

 

[Home Cookin']

Re: Suzuki thinks that a hole in the block caused by salt water is just normal wear

So why is the boat next to mine still going strong with a 1971 100 hp Evinrude? I can go up and down the dock and find older engines, Mercs, Yamas, Johnsons and Evinrudes still running? What do they know that Suzuki doesn't? Oh, luck of the draw or inferior production methods?

Luck. Or really, different circumstances during the 40 years of use.

I had a 1980 Landcruiser that rusted from the inside out on the body parts (very little salt roads/bech use) and learned it was a common problem for several year's models due to inferior Russian steel. Other than that, a superior vehicle.

 

[dingbat]

Re: Suzuki thinks that a hole in the block caused by salt water is just normal wear

So why is the boat next to mine still going strong with a 1971 100 hp Evinrude?

If your neighbor lived to be 100 years old does that mean you will too? No...there are far too many variables to even remotely think that you can determine your own from your neighbors. Something as simple as a loose ground connection can cause corrosion. A flake of Fe left over from the manufacturing process that got trapped in your block would start the process. Far to many variables to speculate or make claim of a single incident.

All zincs changed every year

Something is wrong with this picture. You can't have good zincs and holes in an aluminum block at the same time. Zinc, being the nobler of the two materials, would have been attacked first.

 

[boatkpny]

Re: Suzuki thinks that a hole in the block caused by salt water is just normal wear

I couldn't agree more. Stop blaming Suzuki, they have done nothing wrong, nor should they do anything for you. Suck it up and fix it or buy something else. Boats are expensive........its part of owning one.

Really? boating is expensive? Why I didn't know that after 45 years on the water. Advice is cheap and you have plenty of it.

 

[boatkpny]

Re: Suzuki thinks that a hole in the block caused by salt water is just normal wear

Hey Dingbat,

You appear to be quite knowledgeable about properties of different metals. I understand that there are many variables that could lead to this kind of failure. Take for example the Space Shuttle Challenger O ring issue. In the effort to cut costs, NASA only perform a "failure tree" analysis to a level that did not go low enough to expose the problem. If they had gone lower in the fault tree, the explosion could have been averted. Of course MT did warn NASA about the potential issue but politics got in the way of safety and the rest is history. Now, I am not suggesting that my engine is in the same content as the aforementioned example but logic would dictate that if you run a machine in salt water there must have been studies that identified "failures" of different components of the engine. I maintain that Suzuki did not do its homework when it came to this particular issue for either monetary reasons or just plain incompetence

 

[Pony]

Re: Suzuki thinks that a hole in the block caused by salt water is just normal wear

Really? boating is expensive? Why I didn't know that after 45 years on the water. Advice is cheap and you have plenty of it.

I only have 15 years of experience dealing directly with manufactures every single day, but what do I know about how they handle their customers?

 

[boatkpny]

Re: Suzuki thinks that a hole in the block caused by salt water is just normal wear

Just an update to anyone who is following this posting.

I called Suzuki Motors of America on July 23rd. "Brian" gave me a reference # and said that they would respond to my request for assistance in approximately a week. As of 8/14 no response and I cannot reach Brian.

I wrote a letter to Mr. Takuya Sato, Executive Vice President, Marine Division on July 23rd explaining my issues and asking for a reply. No response.

I followed up with a letter on August 2nd to Mr Sato - no response

I just sent a 3rd letter to Mr. Sato today.

Whether Suzuki agrees or disagrees with my request, they should address the issue in writing and repond accordingly.

This lack of communication further reinforces my belief that SUZUKI doesn't care about customer follow up.

Maybe the 3rd letter will be the charm......................

 

[Sea Rider]

Re: Suzuki thinks that a hole in the block caused by salt water is just normal wear

Gee, I have a 20 year old Pontiac Le Mans and still running pretty strong, but with correct periodic maintenence, that is. No matter for how many hours you rinse an engine with frersh water after each outing, on the long run will form sallt layers and crusts. That's why if you want a long lasting engine from time to time, at the most 3-5 years you should tear cylinder heads, and all water lids, covers and have a inside insspection. Take advantage to remove salt layers and crusts mechanically to leave in opt cooling state as when factory delivered.

Most engines have interior anodes in the cooling water passages wich is a must have inspect and change periodically. If you are the kind of boater than never performs internal engine work as a maintenance thinking that engine doesn't need it, expect to find huge internal galvanic corrosion that lessens wall thickness that inevitably will end eating not only the block, but also cylinder head water passages too.

Happy Boating

 

[boatkpny]

Re: Suzuki thinks that a hole in the block caused by salt water is just normal wear

I have followed all the maintenance proceedures recommended by SUZUKI for the DT200. No, I have never torn down the cylinder heads on this engine and nor did SUZUKI recommend that I perform these actions.

One of the issues that other boaters have brought up is the fact that 30-40 year old engines continue to run without these corrosion issues. I have a 1969 Johnson 9.9 that still runs to the day and has never experienced the kind of corrosion that I saw with my SUZUKI.

As manufacturers continue to find ways to reduce costs, they have internalize a lot of the savings by reducing specifications. This shows up in reduction of wall thicknesses that in the past could withstand salt water corrosion but now has the bear minimum to confront it.

It is my contention that SUZUKI, like most outboard manufacturers have taken this approach to improve their EBITDA while sacrificing quality.

I understand wear parts like impellers and plugs give out eventually but when critical components like cylinder walls rot out, I call that "designed for failure".

I challenge Mr Sato to prove me wrong but so far his pro active approach is to not answer my letters and hope that I just go away.

He's wrong on both counts.................

 

[Sea Rider]

Re: Suzuki thinks that a hole in the block caused by salt water is just normal wear

Write Mr. Sato once again telling him that if he doesn't provide a proper answer to your tech issue in one week, will send the Yakuza team to have a non friendly chat with him If I were Mr.Sato would answer that the engine has passed it's limited warranty and nothing else can be done, to comfort you in a way, offer a huge discount in a new block, period.

BTW tearing cylinder heads down is not specified on any engine brand owner manual, they just specify impeller, leg oil and plug changes, not mayor preventive mant as this one. Preventive Maintenances for the mayority of non technical boater usualy falls under the category of "doesn't need", engine works fine on-off and that's ok with them. If OB's would use the green kryptonite stuff inside their cooling water passages as in cars, definitely would be a different story. Not possible as for 2013.

Happy Boating

 

[Home Cookin']

Re: Suzuki thinks that a hole in the block caused by salt water is just normal wear

If you want to prove a case of design failure then you need to line up dozens of motors of your age, type and use that have the same failure point for the same reason.

if you have that, you may have something to start with, but not a winner yet.

If you don't, you are back to where the posters on this forum leave you: you had an old motor fail and that's just what happens sometimes, but there is no recourse.

So--got any other examples of the same failure?

 

[boatkpny]

Re: Suzuki thinks that a hole in the block caused by salt water is just normal wear

Well we can start with this forum - how many of you own or have owned a DT150, DT 200 Suzuki that you have encountered cylinder block corrosion? Show of hands please along with serial number and year

Thanks

 

[ThrottleBack]

Re: Suzuki thinks that a hole in the block caused by salt water is just normal wear

Okay, so if I follow your logic, if I am operating a Boeing 737 in the South Pacific Region and the aircraft aluminum becomes corroded and the top half of the fuselage comes off in flight, we as passengers should not hold Boeing accountable because the aircraft is 14 years old and we should expect that and accept the consequences?

Why in the world would Boeing be responsible? First of all, things happen especially over 14 years. But the main point is that Boeing provided you with a brand new airplane. It is your (or the mechanical and inspection team) to monitor the conditions of the plane, it's that simple. In your example the plane never should have been cleared for take off, that's not their problem.

Warranty periods are what they are, once you are out of it the sole responsibility of maintaining and monitoring equipment falls on the operator.

 

[V153]

Re: Suzuki thinks that a hole in the block caused by salt water is just normal wear

Like TB said, a warranty is what it is. At this point I don't think sending nastygrams to Suzuki is going to help very much.

If it's any consolation the block from my buddy's '01 Honda 225 4 stroke looked like baby-swiss cheese when we pulled it apart. And that was a year ago! Do you think Honda was any help ...?

If I may, the reason you're not getting many hits on finding similar motors is cuz there ain't many examples left. Least not round these parts. I cain't member the last time I seen one, and try to find someone who'll say anything nice about em. Imo you were fortunate to have it run long's it did.

One has to wonder why you didn't buy Merc or OMC, my personal favorite, in the first place. Or, perish the thought, a Yammie. I see older 200hp Yamaha V6s all day long. I do not see any Suzukis.

If you intend to fix it I recommend laying off the negativity and schmoozing up to a talented aluminum welder ...?


My 2.71 cents. (Adjusted for inflation.)

 

[tomhath]

Re: Suzuki thinks that a hole in the block caused by salt water is just normal wear

I have a 1969 Johnson 9.9 that still runs to the day and has never experienced the kind of corrosion that I saw with my SUZUKI.

I hate to nit pic, but that would surprise me more than a 14 y/o outboard with corrosion problems. OMC introduced the 9.9s in 1974