taxes?

[aspeck]

Re: taxes?

I think the flat tax would be better than the tax system we are paying now, but I have long been in favor of abolishing the current tax on income and switching to a consumption tax. This way people would be forced to pay their fair share with no exceptions. After all, I think it is fair to say that a person that makes $100k per year spends more than one that makes $20k. And the taxes paid would reflect that.<br /><br />Both people may decide it is time to purchase a new car, but the $20k'er would probably buy a cheaper new or a used vehicle where the $100K'er would buy the $50k SUV.<br /><br />The only exceptions I would make would be basic food products (dairy, meats, breads), and wholesale items to be resold within 60 days or to be added to another product that would in turn be sold, would not be taxed. Prepared foods, alcohol, clothing, sporting goods, boats, cars, houses, services, hardware, software, etc would ALL be taxed.<br /><br />Before this change, though, Government MUST agree they will not spend more than what came in the previous year. If they do, they are all fired on the spot and new elections held. Let's cut the pork out of politics and only have the programs that really benefit the country and its citizenry (our military and judicial system, some of the social programs that are on the books, and emergency aid - keep the education system, and all other programs to the state & local governments who can probably handle them much more effeciently).

 

[18rabbit]

Re: taxes?

Originally posted by aspeck:<br /> Before this change, though, Government MUST agree they will not spend more than what came in the previous year.

That is impossible for the same reason it is impossible to ever pay off the nat’l debt. We don’t have assets to back a currency so we borrow money from a private bank and authorize them to print a currency (our USDs are actually 'promissory notes') we can use; specifically, the Federal Reserve Bank. We must pay back the money we borrowed with interest, but since we don’t have anything, we can never pay the interest, a.k.a. “the debt”. Since the founding of the Fed Res, all economies in the US are structured on top of a system of perpetual inflation. The only thing that changes is how much inflation there will be year to year.

 

[pjc]

Re: taxes?

Ah Income Tax Time.<br /><br />I was beat some time ago here in my reference to those who claim deductions that could be considered less than Noble in regards to "business write offs"<br /><br />Since I have adjusted my thinking, and I will deduct and modify my deductions to max my monies returned.<br /><br />The logic is that I can "claim" more deductions thus "earning" a greater return from "your" lesser returns. <br /><br />Brilliant.........

 

[Kiwi Phil]

Re: taxes?

aspeck....your 3rd paragraph.....<br /><br />1. I have operated businesses in 2 countries. Both with Consumption Taxes (GST). The first country did not exempt the foods you mentioned. The second did. To be honest, the more exemptions, the bigger the shambles a Consumption tax becomes. It works best with minimum exemptions.<br />2. The most important point you raised. The taxing of product to be re-sold within 60days. There is no need, and it would encourage fraud. What happens is this:<br />I purchase $10K worth of product (called imputs)this month, and process it to my finished product which I sell for $40K (called outputs). I pay $1K to the people I purchase from (included in purchase price). When I sell I owe $4K which I collected from those who purchase from me. <br />When I do my 3mth return I deduct the $1K from the $4K and pay the Tax Man $3K Consumption Tax. Some months I may actually purchase more than i sell, which means I get a cheque from the Tax Man.<br /><br />Personally I hate it, as I have to keep accurate books, submit a 3mth return and cheque, do an annual Reconcilliation, get continual electronic audits, get mannual audits, and it takes time and generally gets me P/O'd with being an unpaid tax collector for society. BUT, it is a good fair tax so I accept it as a burden of being in business.<br /><br />Cheers<br />Phillip

 

[aspeck]

Re: taxes?

Okay Phil, I will give you the #2 if in fact it would work as you have illustrated.<br /><br />I also agree that the more exemptions, the more the abuse, but I guess it is the humanitarian side of me that says, "Hey, let's help Joe Schmoe who only makes $10K per year with his tax burden. After all, we all need to eat, so let's make the basics tax free." My hope is that in doing this we would have to pay out less in assistance because we would already be assisting the basic food prices.

 

[18rabbit]

Re: taxes?

(1) what exactly are "the basics"? Would caviar be one?<br /><br />(2) what other assets is Joe Shome augmenting his $10k income with?

 

[JB]

Re: taxes?

"Soc Sec payout … yup, funded entirely by tariffs and corporate taxes."<br /><br />You're gonna have to clarify and explain that one, 18R.

 

[Kiwi Phil]

Re: taxes?

aspeck....I am a bit of a socialist at heart and I have seen both options in law. Fortunately my business has no items that are exemptions, but those i know with 'food type stores', even one with a couple of petrol stations, find it a nightmare spitting the 'taxed' and the 'exempt' when doing their 3mth return. But from the social point, then i would go along with exempting the basic foodstuffs like the Australian GST does. It is fair to those struggling.<br />Cheers<br />Phillip

 

[Boomyal]

Re: taxes?

I think Phillip is describing a 'value added' sales tax. It is the most insidious and untraceable type of tax you could employ. Once you have the finished product in your hand you have no idea how much of what you paid went for taxes.<br /><br />If a consumtion tax it were to be, it should be a flat out final retail sales tax. It is paid once, instead of fifteen times along the products path and it is easily traceable. Also it makes it difficult for the government to keep monkeying around with. Can you imagine the Feds trying to change the retail tax rate every two months.<br /><br />The other advantage, amongst all those mentioned, is that a retail sales tax gets rid of accountants, tax lawyers and most importantly the IRS. It would also reduce the amount of social engineering our g'ment does. (a good thing) Also do you have any idea how much otherwise productive cash is sucked up by these three entities?<br /><br />below is a paragraph out of this article, a good read:<br /><br /> http://www.heritage.org/Research/Taxes/bg1852.cfm <br /><br /><br />"No matter how many steps there are in the pro­duction process, a fixed percent of the final price of the product would represent the value-added tax, just as a retail sales tax is a fixed percent of the final product price. However, unlike a sales tax, the cost of the VAT to consumers would be hidden. Unless politicians took the unlikely step of requiring retailers to state explicitly the portion of the sales price that is due to the VAT, consumers would be unaware of the tax.[2]"

 

[Boomyal]

Re: taxes?

oops!

 

[18rabbit]

Re: taxes?

I like what Starbucks did in/to Calif. Here, coffee is not taxable unless it is consumed on the premises of where it was purchased. The state told Starbucks they would get hit with huge fines for not collecting sales tax for the coffee beverages consumed on their premises. As a suggestion, the state said SB should just collect sales tax on all of the beverages sold. Buckies told the state coffee sold in a paper cup is intended to go, coffee served in a non-disposable container is intended for consumption on the premises and is taxed. Enforcement after the sale is the states problem, not Buckies, and if the state has a problem with what the Buckies customers do after purchasing their coffee, the state is welcome to come onto the premises and collect the sale tax from the people sitting there drinking coffee out of paper cups. If that’s not acceptable, the state can deal with an additional 20,000+ ex-Buckie employees suddenly showing up to collect unemployment, i.e. Buckies will close all their stores in Calif.<br /><br />I guess they worked things out because Buckies still doesn’t collect any sales tax here for coffee served in paper cups.