That Dosen't Sound Like Freedom to me

mikeandronda

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Re: That Dosen't Sound Like Freedom to me

Ok plywoody if my kid wants to pray in school for whatever reason, peace,understanding......better grades( lord knows he needs them) he is not allowed to. Him or others praying does not shove religion down anybodys throat. How is anybodys rights taken away by somebody speaking in there presence. It may iritate them but that is not a right.The right not to be iritated is not anywhere I know of because if it was Im pretty sure you would not be allowed voice your opinion.
 

SoulWinner

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Re: That Dosen't Sound Like Freedom to me

Plywoody,<br /><br />If all the left wanted out of Florida was an accurate counting of the votes, after allowing eligable voters to vote, why is the left still claiming that Bush "stole" the election?? It was the left that moved to block the absentee votes from North West Florida (I know, I live here). It was the left who pulled all sorts of shenanigans(sp?) like trying to have republicans arrested for rioting when they tried to get into the recount room to monitor activities by the left wing socialists chad fabricating lieing liars. THe left lied, cheated and stole, and still lost the election (popular vote too) fair and square. <br /><br />So who is it that has a problem with accuracy here, the auther of this piece or Plywoody?? Once again, the honors go to PW.....nothing personal PW, this is all on merit, ok?
 

SoulWinner

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Re: That Dosen't Sound Like Freedom to me

P.S.<br /><br />The really funny thing about the "Friuts and Nuts" Pary trying to have the republicans arrested for rioting or enciting a riot, what ever, is that two weeks before, Revvvverrrennd Jessie Jackson was in Miami marching around miaking inflamitory staements REALLY TRYING to get a riot going! In fact, he even stated that unless algore was declare the defacto winner (of course he didn't use the term defacto becuase he doesn't know what it means) that htere would be rioting and Miami would burn.<br /><br />The real dissapointment here is that Jeb "do nothing" Bush didn't have the state police arrest Jackson on the spot and have him dropped off naked at the Georgia state line with an open warrant for his arrest if he ever entered the state of Florida again.<br /><br />But Plywoody, you are always welcome :)
 

plywoody

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Re: That Dosen't Sound Like Freedom to me

Your child can pray all he wants in school. How could anyone possibly stop him? Or why would they want to? What he cannot do is lead an organized sanctioned school prayer, because a government entity cannot sanction a specific religion over another.<br />For the life of me, I cannot comprehend why you cannot understand this distinction. Imagine the outrage if there was an Islamic, or Buhddist, or Hindu, or even a Wiccan chant at the start of a school assembly.<br />The constitution and the bill of rights is there to protect the minority--it is why it is there. If the majority got their way on all issues, we would not need the bill of rights at all.
 

plywoody

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Re: That Dosen't Sound Like Freedom to me

And I do not want to get into a rehash of the Florida vote. Their were plenty of charges and counter charges to go around, from police stopping people on their way to vote, to blocking the eligibility of otherwise eligible voters, to a charge of not counting absentee ballots. If any or all of the charges are accurate, they are wrong.<br /><br />All I ever wanted was an accurate counting of *all* votes from all eligible voters. I don't think we got that. Perhaps we could never have got that under the current system. Which is why it is time to change, and make uniform, the system. I've said before that states that can have lottery machines at every convenience store that are always 100% accurate, they can figure out a way to have voting machines work.
 

JGREGORY

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Re: That Dosen't Sound Like Freedom to me

Plywoody, do you really think so???<br /><br />We just had a case in New Jersey where there was a party in school and all the kids where supposed to bring in some sort of trinkit to give away. The 10 year old kid brought in pencils that said "Jesus Love You" and gave them out. The teachers took his pencils and sent him home and then brought the parents in for a conference.<br /><br />The parents sued, Violation of First Admend, if I remember correctly. This week the courts in Jersey just up held the schools action. So don't tell me what a child can and cannot do!
 

KennyKenCan

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Re: That Dosen't Sound Like Freedom to me

Hey PW,<br /><br />A child cannot pray anywhere in a public school.<br /><br />When my son was in the 5th grade, he was suspended from school for saying grace before he ate his lunch!!<br /><br />He did not encoarge any of the other children to participate, and even did it quetly, so the other students wouldn't ridicule him.<br /><br />But, one of the aides saw him praying, and reported it to the principle!<br /><br />We were told that he either stop saying grace, or the suspensions would continue, and they recommended that if he insists on saying grace before his lunch, that we should consider enrolling him in a catholic school, and the school district would be free to collect my tax dallars for a school that my child would be exempt from attending because of a simple prayer before eating!<br /><br />After a suppinia(sp?) to court, the schools elected to drop the whole thing!<br /><br />But it's liberal thinking like yours that thinks that a child can pray whenever he/she wants without ramifications, and that is totally untrue!<br /><br />The librals and the atheists have seen to that!<br /><br />Kenny
 

kenimpzoom

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Re: That Dosen't Sound Like Freedom to me

Kenny,<br /><br />That is the most pathetic thing I have ever heard. WHAT WERE THOSE IDIOTS THINKING!!!!! I would have had a very difficult time controlling my anger over something as stupid as that.<br /><br />I have many, many, problems will all the rules in schools. Somewhere, somehow, the government has forgotton that these are MY kids, not thiers.<br /><br />Ken
 

JGREGORY

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Re: That Dosen't Sound Like Freedom to me

Hey kenimpzoom, they are not your kids. Remember what the Honorable Senator from NY, Hillary Clinton said. "It Takes A Village To Raise A Child." <br /><br />I think she really meant to say Village Idiot or Villiage of Idiots. :mad: :rolleyes:
 

mikeandronda

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Re: That Dosen't Sound Like Freedom to me

At my sons school some kids were getting together to pray on there lunch without any true orginition, they were just doing it . They were told to stop or they would face suspention. So before you talk Plywoody learn your facts.None of us are even from the same states and yet schools are doing this here and there. And the facts are that Christians are loseing rights all the time. It is my understanding a bill has been proposed to legalize Gay marrages and at the same time a bill was proposed to make it a hate crime for a pastor,minister or preist to preach from the old testiment on what the bible says about gays. Mind you im not as wise to politics as u profess to be ply but from my understanding if the first bill went through the second prolly would of as well. So how does that sound like freedom of religion.of course if it was a bill proposed by liberals chances are the gays would then vote for them.sounds kinda like giving illegel alians drivers lisenses to me.(Sorry SBN Im pretty sure your alien buddies are legal.) :)
 

wvit100

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Re: That Dosen't Sound Like Freedom to me

Here's a story you might be interesting in:<br /><br />Iraq - No Uranium, <br />Munitions, Missiles Or Programs <br />The Independent - UK <br />10-5-3 <br /><br />As the first progress report from the Iraq Survey Group is released, Cambridge WMD expert Dr Glen Rangwala finds that even the diluted claims made for Saddam Hussein's arsenal don't stand up... <br /> <br />Last week's progress report by American and British weapons inspectors in Iraq has failed to supply evidence for the vast majority of the claims made on Iraqi weapons of mass destruction by their governments before the war. <br /> <br />David Kay, head of the Iraq Survey Group (ISG), told congressional committees in Washington that no official orders or plans could be found to back up the allegation that a nuclear programme remained active after 1991. Aluminium tubes have not been used for the enrichment of uranium, in contrast to US Secretary of State Colin Powell's lengthy exposition to the UN Security Council in February. No suspicious activities or residues have been found at the seven sites within Iraq described in the Prime Minister's dossier from September 2002. <br /> <br />The ISG even casts serious doubt on President Bush's much-trumpeted claim that US forces had found three mobile biological laboratories after the war: "technical limitations" would prevent the trailers from being ideally suited to biological weapons production, it records. In other words, they were for something else. <br /> <br />There have certainly been no signs of imported uranium, or even battlefield munitions ready to fire within 45 minutes. Most significantly, the claim to Parliament on the eve of conflict by Jack Straw, the Foreign Secretary, that "we know that this man [Saddam Hussein] has got ... chemical weapons, biological weapons, viruses, bacilli and ... 10,000 litres of anthrax" has yet to find a single piece of supportive evidence. <br /> <br />Those who staked their career on the existence in Iraq of at least chemical and biological weapons programmes have latched on to three claims in the progress report. <br /> <br />First, there is the allegation that a biologist had a "collection of reference strains" at his home, including "a vial of live C botulinum Okra B from which a biological agent can be produced". Mr Straw claimed the morning after the report's release that this agent was "15,000 times more toxic than the nerve agent VX". That is wrong: botulinum type A is one of the most poisonous substances known, and was developed in weaponised form by Iraq before 1991. However, type B - the form found at the biologist's home - is less lethal. <br /> <br />Even then, it would require an extensive process of fermentation, the growing of the bug, the extraction of the toxin and the weaponisation of the toxin before it could cause harm. That process would take weeks, if not longer, but the ISG reported no sign of any of these activities. <br /> <br />Botulinum type B could also be used for making an antidote to common botulinum poisoning. That is one of the reasons why many military laboratories around the world keep reference strains of C botulinum Okra B. The UK keeps such substances, for example, and calls them "seed banks". <br /> <br />Second, a large part of the ISG report is taken up with assertions that Iraq had been acquiring designs and under- taking research programmes for missiles with a range that exceeded the UN limit of 150km. The evidence here is more detailed than in the rest of the report. However, it does not demonstrate that Iraq was violating the terms of any Security Council resolution. The prohibition on Iraq acquiring technology relating to chemical, biological or nuclear weapons was absolute: no agents, no sub-systems and no research or support facilities. <br /> <br />By contrast, Iraq was simply prohibited from actually having longer-range missiles, together with "major parts, and repair and production facilities". The ISG does not claim proof that Iraq had any such missiles or facilities, just the knowledge to produce them in future. Indeed, it would have been entirely lawful for Iraq to develop such systems if the restrictions implemented in 1991 were lifted, while it would never have been legitimate for it to re-develop WMD. <br /> <br />Third, one sentence within the report has been much quoted: Iraq had "a clandestine network of laboratories and safe houses within the Iraqi intelligence service that contained equipment subject to UN monitoring and suitable for continuing CBW research". Note what that sentence does not say: these facilities were suitable for chemical and biological weapons research (as almost any modern lab would be), not that they had engaged in such research. The reference to UN monitoring is also spurious: under the terms of UN resolutions, all of Iraq's chemical and biological facilities are subject to monitoring. So all this tells us is that Iraq had modern laboratories. <br /> <br />© 2003 Independent Digital (UK) Ltd <br /> <br /> http://news.independent.co.uk/world/middle_east/story.jsp?story=450121
 

wvit100

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Re: That Dosen't Sound Like Freedom to me

And about the prayer in school thing.<br /><br />Nobody ever said you couldn't pray in school. You can put down your head and pray anytime and anywhere you want.<br /><br />What a school can not do is have the teacher lead the class in a prayer every morning. <br /><br />The school can not promote one brand of religion over any other, the government can not have a State supported religion.
 

samagee

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Re: That Dosen't Sound Like Freedom to me

Hmm, perhaps some messages to the companys and organizations who sponsor the lobbyist? Maybe boycotts of their products? I mean if we could get them on treason and have them executed, that would be nice. However, we can't.<br /><br />Seriously though. The people need to start doing sit ins at these congress meetings. Start shoving our noses into what the lobbyist are up to. Then make sure we are interupting them with what the people want. And if we acidently knock a lobbyist down a couple flights of stairs, BONUS.<br /><br />I wonder what these companys and organizations would do if their lobbyist had some competition?
 

mikeandronda

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Re: That Dosen't Sound Like Freedom to me

Hey Wvit I, and I doubt anybody else here is making up that there are children being stoped from praying in there schools. Some children have prayed in school the have been repremended and in some case kicked out. Now im not talking about A teacher or school telling the kids to pray. Im talking about saying grace or praying by a flag pole. In my kids school they have a gay support group which is acctully enquoriged by his school, I can only imagine how a Christian prayer group would be welcomed by the same people. I dont think a school or anybody should force anybody else to pray to God, Alla sp?, a golden calf or anything else but if you or my kid tried to pray out loud he shouldnt get in trouble period.As for voting it is amazing we can send people into space but cant figure out how to count votes. Hmmmmmmmm.
 

wvit100

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Re: That Dosen't Sound Like Freedom to me

It is strange that they cann't count a couple of million votes without making any mistakes isn't it.<br /><br />Maybe I been down here in the South to long. I have never heard anyone speak out about anything to do with praying in schools, other than the bible thumpers around here. There is a prayer before every NASCAR race and nobody has said anything about that, but then that's a private think isn't it. Our City Council opens each meeting with a prayer, but they rotate and I think that the prayer at the last meeting was given by a Muslim and before that was a Jew I think.
 

kclark1963

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Sep 20, 2003
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Re: That Dosen't Sound Like Freedom to me

Lady Fish, good post this is a great thread. It seems like a most have forgotten it's We the people, I served my Country and I vote, I will standup for anyones right to act a fool or speak their mind as long as their actions don't harm others. Bigger goverment means less freedom. If you don't vote, start, but please learn about what your voting for and whom your voting for. Everyones vote is valuable, especiall when it used with knowledge.<br /><br />Kevin
 

wvit100

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Re: That Dosen't Sound Like Freedom to me

kclark, I'm with you. We need to start reducing the size of the government and reducing the size of the federal budget. This isn't what either the liberals or the consevatives are about though. In recent history the biggest increases in the budgets and the biggest deficiets have come during so called conservative administrations. There needs to be some real conservatives elected. People who are for smaller government, fiscal restraint, and individual liberties and freedoms.
 

mikeandronda

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Re: That Dosen't Sound Like Freedom to me

Hey Kevin your right on when it comes to voting.......I think many people who complain the most are the same people who say "why vote? It wont make a difference anyways." Like someone stated before it may not, but then you at least have the right to complain.
 

kclark1963

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Sep 20, 2003
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Re: That Dosen't Sound Like Freedom to me

We see eye to eye wvit100. In California we are micro managed to death and it's as bad at the Federal level. micro management = bigger government. Most large corporation figured out that micro management leads to disaster. Also not voting or voting without at least understanding what your voting for is like showing up for a gun fight unarmed. ;) <br /><br />Kevin
 
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