The future of boat launches

[Huron Angler]

Re: The future of boat launches

Since Michigan now wraps state park/launch fees in with vehicle registration I will be using the DNR ramps almost exclusively.

My favorite fishing holes don't even have paved launches or docks so I very rarely pay for anything except bait and fuel.

I agree with much of what has been posted, Home Cookin and Silvertip make some good points about our reality.

 

[BTMCB]

Re: The future of boat launches

I think you should have to "pay-to-launch" based on time needed to launch say a buck a minute I think that would be a huge factor in eliminating the ramp idiots.....

Think about it!! I may have the idea of the century here!!

Absolutely BRILLIANT idea

 

[H20Rat]

Re: The future of boat launches

I don't think the original posters main concern was usage fees... not a problem, they do go for ramps and improvements. The big problem is for a $50k+ system to automate fees, at a ramp that takes in $5k yearly. The fees will NEVER pay for that system if you take into account maintenance. In other words, that little automated fee collector is going to cost more than the fees will ever pay, so the ramp is going to have less money available overall. The contractor that sold this is the only one that wins. (see post #15)

 

[LippCJ7]

Re: The future of boat launches

I hear you smoking crater but what your(and your not the only one either) not taking into account is how much does it cost to man that same gate with one or two employees with benefits? Once you take that into account complete with the federal or state benefits package I bet this little gate pays itself off in a year or less. While I am not in favor of automation taking jobs from people its a way of life in todays world. The problem is that since were saving the need for a head count or two here they will simply be allocated elsewhere which means were not saving any money anyway.

 

[Huron Angler]

Re: The future of boat launches

how much does it cost to man that same gate with one or two employees with benefits? Once you take that into account complete with the federal or state benefits package I bet this little gate pays itself off in a year or less.

I agree...but in Michigan when our budget gets tight they start closing the state parks that have no staff and "rustic" camping only first for some reason. This saves a negligible amount of money, since those parks have been maintained by volunteers all along(as far as working trails, trash pickup etc).

The parks with full staff and tons of campsites with RV hook-ups will stay open. It's reverse logic at work here sometimes.

 

[64osby]

Re: The future of boat launches

Wonder if they have launch fees in Egypt or Tunisia? Or Sudan? Hmmmmmmm.

Halliburton could set that up.

http://www.allegancounty.org/Government/PD/Parks/GunLake.asp?pt=Government

Here's a link that shows the park and a pic of the ramp. They want the entry gate to be about 50' from the ramp and 113' from the ramp to the exit gate with 12' wide driveway. I can just see the headaches and arguements when someone doesn't clear the ramp area quickly.

I wonder how many boats will get hit by the gate. My gate has a wire in the ground that senses the vehicle and keeps the gate open, it may not sense the boat.

I have no problem with setting up a system to pay for the use of the ramp. When there is a user fee for camping, ramps or parking I do pay. I think it's crazy to spend $40K, my estimate, for a launch the generates $6K a year. Do it at a launch that generates $10-20K per year at least.

I do know that this area does not have enough room for parking and theres going to be some major headaches, IMHO

It may well be a case of a friend of the county looking to make a buck. But once again, Common sense is not common. :facepalm:

 

[QC]

Re: The future of boat launches

The big problem is for a $50k+ system to automate fees, at a ramp that takes in $5k yearly.

What is missing in this calc is the extra fees received when no one can launch for free anymore Not saying I like this, or like automated gates, or don't like people who cheat the honor system. I just believe that it has been established that not all launches are paid for now, so the annual revenue number should theoretically rise with installation of the gate . . .

 

[64osby]

Re: The future of boat launches

so the annual revenue number should theoretically rise with installation of the gate . . .

They stated in the bid doc

1.5 The recorded boat launch usage for 2010 was 1,268; however, the actual usage may be significantly higher.

The unknown amount of users is the kicker, if it's 100 more per year they get $500 more, if the number doubles they get $6k. Even if it doubles it still takes 4 years to payoff. Thats if they can keep it running 24/7 for the 5 months the park is open.

My other question is what happens when the park closes for the year. May 1st to Sept30th. I know a lot of people who go boating and fishing more than 5 months a year. Do they leave the gate open or keep it running and hope it doesn't break down.

Park an old County vehicle on site - more people would use the honor drop and they would be money ahead.

 

[QC]

Re: The future of boat launches

Even if it doubles it still takes 4 years to payoff.

That's light speed in Gov't world . . . Even in the private sector, you would do that if the life of the gate exceeded around 6 years. Depends on the cost of money. Assumptions are just that, but I think it is safe to assume that more fees will be paid by installing the gate. I wonder what launch fees would be if this was a private facility?

This thread (my posts included) is dangerously close to politics. FWIW I am trying to limit my comments to clarifying the math.

Edit: Actually we are both wrong. You have to pay back the gate with the incremental revenue i.e. the additional fees. So if it did double it would take 10 years. If the revenue went up by 50% it would take 20 years etc. Bad deal. Never mind.

 

[Huron Angler]

Re: The future of boat launches

Park an old County vehicle on site - more people would use the honor drop and they would be money ahead.

That's a great idea, and they could add a $10 fake video camera and folks would probably just pay.

 

[64osby]

Re: The future of boat launches

This thread (my posts included) is dangerously close to politics. FWIW I am trying to limit my comments to clarifying the math.

Edit: Actually we are both wrong. You have to pay back the gate with the incremental revenue i.e. the additional fees. So if it did double it would take 10 years. If the revenue went up by 50% it would take 20 years etc. Bad deal. Never mind.

I did not post this with any intent of being political.

I'm a businessman, this is a very bad investment, know matter how you dress it up.

I'll state it again - Common sense is not common!!!

 

[QC]

Re: The future of boat launches

I did not post this with any intent of being political.

That was not aimed at you . . . just a general modulational comment.

 

[RotaryRacer]

Re: The future of boat launches

I need to follow up with some additional information about this particular ramp and this particular gate/fee collector:

I received some additional information through an e-mail contact to my county.

- They plan to split the fee so that you pay half to launch and half to retrieve. I can't see any other fair way to do it.
- They have lost about 50% of their revenue over the past 5 years....they suspect that people are intentionally dodging the county employs and planning their launch times to when they don't have a county employee at the park.
- They estimate that only about 25% of the users of the ramp are paying the fee.
- They have an estimate for the equipment already and they seem reasonably sure that they will get a return on the investment in a reasonable timeframe.

I can't say that I like the idea of a having a gated entrance to this ramp. However, I am very grateful that I was able to discuss it with someone that listened to my concerns. I also understand that people that use the facility need to pay for it.

 

[bonz_d]

Re: The future of boat launches

Here in Wisconsin ramp fees have become a way of life. Very few free ramps left and those that I have found mostly do not provide parking. Also my village owns/operates 2 ramps which have fees yet I also pay for the village parks through my property taxes. So I guess you could say I pay twice!

 

[scoutabout]

Re: The future of boat launches

...Reject all fraudulent or foreign currency including Canadian
immediately....

It's not so much that we've been lumped in with the wooden nickels, but rather the way our dollar is going, that is a missed opportunity!

 

[NYBo]

Re: The future of boat launches

So what the public doesn't see is the back room dealing that goes on between your elected officials, and people of power. It drives me nuts, I see it every day but there is nothing you can do because it is all legal, and how our system works.

It may be how our system works, but it sure isn't legal, at least not here in NY, even with its horribly screwed-up state government. The problem is catching them at it.