Tilt and trim motor

[TMALEGA]

Ok so i was looking at my motor again tonight without disassembling it. I was wondering two different things after this happened. I ground the motor and hot wired the motor and nothing happened no sparks or anything i believe it is a ground issue again that is what it was the last time this happened and they had to go re rebuild it. So my questions are these.

1. Is it possible to take the 2 wire relay system and wire it in to make this 3 wire motor work?

2. Can i put a ground wire on the motor somewhere like one of the bolts on top of the motor and have it be the ground wire?

I am trying to get this to work somewhat until i can find out what the a.g. Is going to do here about this company not fixing what is wrong. If worse comes to worse i may have a co worker try and fix it. I know this sounds like a cheap way of doing things however i dont want to get into the motor and the a.g. Go and get them to work on it for me like they should and then they can say i went into the motor and caused it all. I was also just thinking of getting a steel threaded rod to run through the brakets and keep it in place while in the lake, thanks guys i hope this made since. O and the motor again is a 85 85hp force motor 3 wire tilt and trim motor system. I am hoping to have the a.g. Answer this next week or so.

 

[TMALEGA]

Re: Tilt and trim motor

Any suggestions anyone? Thanks i am thinking about just tearing it open tonight and trying to solder the wires back on, cant imagine it being that difficult compared to working on car electronics if all i need to do is the reattach wires.

 

[Frank Acampora]

Re: Tilt and trim motor

Yes, it is possible to convert the motor to two wire relay operation BUT--you still need the ground. So, you are skunked.

It has been a long time since I have torn into a three wire so I am not sure about how it is grounded. I do know that there are two separate windings for up and down and both connect to the same ground. That is why you must remove the heavy ground wires when you convert to a relay system.

Because the trim cylinder is in the way, it is not possible to pass a rod of any sort through the holes in the clamp. HOWEVER: you can use two short 1/2 inch stainless bolts passed from outside to inside and on the inside of the clamps thread on two 1/2 inch threaded couplers. Lacking them, use about three nuts. Get them even if possible and have a flat surface on the pads of the engine.

 

[TMALEGA]

Re: Tilt and trim motor

Ok frank either way it sounds like i will need to tear into the motor and if i am going in there i may as well just resolder the wires that have come free. Get throught the weekend and hopefully not have to go back in for quite a while. Everyone have a great weekend and hopefully going to the lake.

 

[RRitt]

Re: Tilt and trim motor

1. Is it possible to take the 2 wire relay system and wire it in to make this 3 wire motor work?

Yes. disconnect ground from post 87A on both relays.

2. Can i put a ground wire on the motor somewhere like one of the bolts on top of the motor and have it be the ground wire?

No. The Force 3w trim motor is not internally grounded. The sealing gaskets interupt electrical continuity in a properly built motor. Thje OMC brush cap is identical to the force brush cap except that it does include a ground lug. If you rebuild using an OMC brush cap then you can eliminate ground wire. You will still need an 8" jumper to tie ground lug to transom bracket.

I am trying to get this to work somewhat until i can find out what the a.g. Is going to do here about this company not fixing what is wrong. If worse comes to worse i may have a co worker try and fix it. I know this sounds like a cheap way of doing things however i dont want to get into the motor and the a.g. Go and get them to work on it for me like they should and then they can say i went into the motor and caused it all. I was also just thinking of getting a steel threaded rod to run through the brakets and keep it in place while in the lake, thanks guys i hope this made since. O and the motor again is a 85 85hp force motor 3 wire tilt and trim motor system. I am hoping to have the a.g. Answer this next week or so.

If your motor does not have rust then it is worth fixing. If it has rust then it may still be worth fixing. The three items are 1) brush cap 2) field frame 3)armature. If any two of these three has rust damage then it will be expensive to fix and you're probably better of hunting down a different motor. If you give up trying to fix and need cheap then I have some chinese motors left over from last year. It won't last very long. maybe five years. Not as good as an arco or sierra but a lot cheaper. I'm thinking I paid $90 or so for them.

 

[TMALEGA]

Re: Tilt and trim motor

Well i tore into it and guess what the brush housing i paid extra to have replaced was the one i took to them and all they had done was solder past the thermal coupler and didnt do that very well also wherever they couldnt solder it at they used electrical tape and over did that however that wasnt the best part. They didnt put the seal in at the bottom of the motor on the resevor so when i lossened up the bolts, you guessed it water poured out of the housing everything was rusted but i got it all cleaned up. But the brush housing is still broken and i cant get it to work with that being broken. So rritt i will be pm you in a few. See what we can do. Thanks for all the advice guys. I am not happy at all due to being out the original 100 bucks for the first repairs and all the gas money having to take it back so many times. I found a local guy that wants around 100 for a used one if he has it. Dont knwo that i want to go used again. Even five years of use sounds like a nice deal since i am wanting to upgrade to a 18 or 19 ft boat by then so.. Thank you all for the help so to get me through the holiday i made a pin to put in the hole to be able to get offf the trailor and not have the motor pull uot of the water on me atleast,

 

[RRitt]

Re: Tilt and trim motor

how deep is the rust and does the armature shaft have any pitting?

electrical tape? seriously? there is no way that electrical tape will not unravel in that environment. haven't they ever heard of braided fiberglass and heatshrink? any half decent motor shop should have spools of that stuff in stock. Your motor should not have even run without a bottom gasket. It should have pinched the armature. jumping the thermal is no big deal. early versions did not even have a thermal.

people wouldn't be selling used trim parts if the engine was still running. If the engine isn't running then it probably wasn't maintained. I am constantly amazed at how people think a used trim system will bolt right up and work without any troubles. If you buy used then buy it as a core. Plan on rebuild. If it runs correctly then count it as an added bonus. it it is a used motor + valve body then $100 might be decent price if rust free unit with blue paint. if just a used motor don't give more than $60 for used. too much risk.

 

[TMALEGA]

Re: Tilt and trim motor



its hard to see in the brush shot that the top of the one sticking down is actually missing and they had squezzed the slides together so it would stay in place. The other side wont even move in and out like it should they have squezzed it so tight. All they did was paint the outside and tape some new wires in place i did the solder last night trying to make it work for atleast this weekend but it still isnt working so i am stuck with the pin idea atleast i can still go out but cant go to close to anything. Since i cant raise the motor without having to get up and go back and lean out of the boat and all the fun stuff. That is not the best angle to be at with that heavy motor. Lol thanks guys i promise even if it didnt sound like i wasnt listening, i was always the best answers and people here.

 

[RRitt]

Re: Tilt and trim motor

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its hard to see in the brush shot that the top of the one sticking down is actually missing and they had squezzed the slides together so it would stay in place. The other side wont even move in and out like it should they have squezzed it so tight. All they did was paint the outside and tape some new wires in place i did the solder last night trying to make it work for atleast this weekend but it still isnt working so i am stuck with the pin idea atleast i can still go out but cant go to close to anything. Since i cant raise the motor without having to get up and go back and lean out of the boat and all the fun stuff. That is not the best angle to be at with that heavy motor. Lol thanks guys i promise even if it didnt sound like i wasnt listening, i was always the best answers and people here.

needs a new brush cap. frame looks like surface rust which cleans up quick in blast cabinet. if the armature is not pitted then its worth fixing.

 

[TMALEGA]

Re: Tilt and trim motor

Well this was the worst outing ever to the lake for me. I went out and one thing went then another and it just continued. First off the pin i had planned on using to support the motor when i was backing into the lake wouldnt hold it up enough to keep it off the ground. Then i get it in the water finally and the small peice of house i put on the roller at the cam for the carbs was to thick so i was idling at 2500 rpms simple enough, cut the house off and it was fixed but not before i got off the trailor it died on me and pushed me into the rocks. And since i have no tilt i couldnt just raise the motor so my prop has a very small bend in the end of one blade. Next i ask the liittle lady to push us off the rocks since i was now holding the motor up by hand, after sitting for a few moments i turn around and she was now standing on top of the rock pile asking how she could do it without getting wet. So i say screw it and jump in, when i hit the water i remember o yea my phone never got out of my pocket. Ok so we get off the rocks and go back to the trailor and fight the waves holding up the motor and trying to do all the other good stuff and get it on the trailor. Great just call it a day and go home. Go to turn into my neighborhood and realized hey the transom saver has fallen off at the last bump and my skeg is now sparking up so nicely, got lucky all it did was grind off a very small amount of it. Caught it quick enough. Now after all this for the moral of the story. Get the darn tilt motor fixed and save all the other stuff that sounds easy enough to deal with for some other guy. Lol. I still dont know how well the otter box protected my evo but it wont turn on right now and stay on. Worse day ever. Lol and the worse part is i had a buddy of mine come down there to relax after working on his car all day. So i hope with everyone helping me i can get the darn tilt motor working soon.

Sorry it was so long it was just a really bad day. Lol