I just spent the last couple of hours or so calling around looking for a deal on a Yamaha outboard, my criteria was 20 or 25 hp 2 or 4 stroke long shaft non current because I'm shopping for a deal. I have come up with two choices one of which I will buy, first a 25 hp two stroke manual start or for $500 bucks more a 20hp 4 stroke electric start. I don't mind mixing gas and oil for the 2 stroke and I don't mind the extra maintenance the 4 stroke will require, I want to decide tonight because either one of these non currents are substantially less than 09's and will disappear soon. Thanks for your input. In case this influences your suggestions it's for a 14 ft jon boat with a modifed V hull, 2 people, 100lb lab, 35 mile long inland lake.