Timing effect spark?

[AngryAtMyBoat]

Im new to outboards but like with a car would timing being set wrong cause no spark on one of the three cylinders? I have a 1984 force 85hp... can't get the flywheel free but all the wires have been checked over and over all seem good, the coil is new and the cd box is new. When I change the connections around with the other cd box the no spark issue moves to those plugs, so it must be an issue after those connections? I don't really understand the test for the trigger and stator so I haven't done that... Thanks for any help I'm pulling my hair out over here.

 

[Lukelona]

Re: Timing effect spark?

just went through the same issue with my 50hp force, My repair was replacing points and condensers.
You can prolly get away with filing them with some 400grit sandpaper until shiny new looking.
I used a "harmonic balancer" puller from harbor freight, GET GRADE 8 BOLTS AND WASHERS for the puller. cost about $15.

 

[AngryAtMyBoat]

Re: Timing effect spark?

just went through the same issue with my 50hp force, My repair was replacing points and condensers.
You can prolly get away with filing them with some 400grit sandpaper until shiny new looking.
I used a "harmonic balancer" puller from harbor freight, GET GRADE 8 BOLTS AND WASHERS for the puller. cost about $15.

I tried the puller and the threads pulled out so now I will have to re tap them but that seems like a lost cause , there is only the two cd boxes and the three coils on my system from what I can tell not a points setup and honestly I'm at a complete loss... I like to think I'm a pretty mechanically inclined person and this is driving me crazy.

 

[thelmuth]

Re: Timing effect spark?

Just exactly which connections did you change that made the no spark issue swap CDI units? Was it the blue and yellow wires from the stator or the trigger wires or both?

 

[AngryAtMyBoat]

Re: Timing effect spark?

Just exactly which connections did you change that made the no spark issue swap CDI units? Was it the blue and yellow wires from the stator or the trigger wires or both?

I switched both, i did not do one or the other, i just hooked them up the same way they came off eachother if that makes sense.

 

[AngryAtMyBoat]

Re: Timing effect spark?

Now ive gotten the flywheel off, no burns no corrosion no loose or broken wires, still no spark on the one cylinder...

 

[Frank Acampora]

Re: Timing effect spark?

One side of one CD box is not used. SO: Depending upon which cylinder is not sparking, switch the trigger and coil wires to the unused side and you should then have spark. If two cylinders have no spark and they both are serviced by the same CD box, replace the CD box.

You can re-tap the flywheel holes to 5/16-18 without drilling. The stripped holes are the correct size. In fact, since there is nothing interfering underneath, with the flywheel off, you can drill all the way through and tap full depth to avoid stripping again.

When you do install the flywheel, torque the nut to 90 foot pounds or it will spin and snap the key.

 

[AngryAtMyBoat]

Re: Timing effect spark?

The cd box works when I switch them around with eachother and i have replaced it for fun, it is the cd box that controls the third cylinder only the other controls the 1 and 2 and are functioning... any other ideas or I'm taking a chainsaw to this thing.

 

[Lukelona]

Re: Timing effect spark?

just to re-cap, now that you have the flywheel pulled, does it have points under it?
I believe some with cd box also had points, I could be wrong...

 

[thelmuth]

Re: Timing effect spark?

OK, so you in effect switched the cd boxes and the no spark condition stayed on the same cylinder. Try switching coils around. If the no spark moves to a different cylinder it is a bad coil. If it stays at the same cylinder it is a trigger or stator issue. Try swapping just the stator wires (blue/yel) between cd boxes, leaving the trigger wires where they are. If you lose spark at 1&2 but have it at 3 it is a stator issue, if the problem stays at 3 it is a trigger issue.

Check all the connections at the terminal strip. They tend to corrode and break under the heat shrink but visually appear to be ok. Give the wires a good tug to make sure they aren't broken at the connector. Repair as necessary. I recommend replacing all the connections as a preventive measure.

 

[jerryjerry05]

Re: Timing effect spark?

Luke your right about being wrong
What cylinder isn't getting spark?
If you swapped packs around and the spark changed?
Then it's probably the pack.
It's possible the coil?
It's possible the trigger?
It's possible the stator?
The packs are set up: top controls #1and 2
second just #3.
There is a red(I think) lead(maybe orange) that is hanging loose.
It can be rewired to use the second side of the pack.

 

[AngryAtMyBoat]

Re: Timing effect spark?

Luke your right about being wrong
What cylinder isn't getting spark?
If you swapped packs around and the spark changed?
Then it's probably the pack.
It's possible the coil?
It's possible the trigger?
It's possible the stator?
The packs are set up: top controls #1and 2
second just #3.
There is a red(I think) lead(maybe orange) that is hanging loose.
It can be rewired to use the second side of the pack.

The third cylinder has no spark, if i take the orange lead and switch for the red no change, replaced pack no change, replaced coil no change. If i take the quick connects from pack one and exchange them with pack two then #1 and #2 cylinder have no spark and #3 does. Checked wires with ohm meter all readings are the same so no breaks. There are no burns marks or rust on the stator or trigger either.

 

[Jiggz]

Re: Timing effect spark?

If you switch pack #1 (CDM) serving #1 & #2 cylinders to pack #2 that is serving #3 cylinder and the problem switches over, meaning the non-spark also switched from #3 cylinder to now #1 & #2 cylinders, it tells me pack #2 is bad. Remember you must not be switching wires (stator and trigger wires) instead you are only switching the packs or CDM's. There is a difference if you are switching wires. If you are switching wires (stator wires and trigger wires) then the problem is upstream of the packs or CDM's. So the question is, did you switch wires or packs? Let us know. Note pack #2 has a spare ckt (each pack has two ckts just like pack #1 serving both #1 and #2 cylinders) because your engine is a 3 cylinder type. On engines with 4 cylinders all ckts are in used.

 

[AngryAtMyBoat]

Re: Timing effect spark?

Luke your right about being wrong
What cylinder isn't getting spark?
If you swapped packs around and the spark changed?
Then it's probably the pack.
It's possible the coil?
It's possible the trigger?
It's possible the stator?
The packs are set up: top controls #1and 2
second just #3.
There is a red(I think) lead(maybe orange) that is hanging loose.
It can be rewired to use the second side of the pack.

If you switch pack #1 (CDM) serving #1 & #2 cylinders to pack #2 that is serving #3 cylinder and the problem switches over, meaning the non-spark also switched from #3 cylinder to now #1 & #2 cylinders, it tells me pack #2 is bad. Remember you must not be switching wires (stator and trigger wires) instead you are only switching the packs or CDM's. There is a difference if you are switching wires. If you are switching wires (stator wires and trigger wires) then the problem is upstream of the packs or CDM's. So the question is, did you switch wires or packs? Let us know. Note pack #2 has a spare ckt (each pack has two ckts just like pack #1 serving both #1 and #2 cylinders) because your engine is a 3 cylinder type. On engines with 4 cylinders all ckts are in used.

I have done both, i have replaced the packs and coil and switched the wires around... so the problem must be before the connections to the packs. Also pack number 2 is dead on both red and orange.

 

[thelmuth]

Re: Timing effect spark?

When you switched the red for orange did you also switch the trigger wires? If you only switched the output to coil without switching the input from trigger there is nothing telling that side of the cd pack to fire.

 

[AngryAtMyBoat]

Re: Timing effect spark?

Luke your right about being wrong
What cylinder isn't getting spark?
If you swapped packs around and the spark changed?
Then it's probably the pack.
It's possible the coil?
It's possible the trigger?
It's possible the stator?
The packs are set up: top controls #1and 2
second just #3.
There is a red(I think) lead(maybe orange) that is hanging loose.
It can be rewired to use the second side of the pack.

If you switch pack #1 (CDM) serving #1 & #2 cylinders to pack #2 that is serving #3 cylinder and the problem switches over, meaning the non-spark also switched from #3 cylinder to now #1 & #2 cylinders, it tells me pack #2 is bad. Remember you must not be switching wires (stator and trigger wires) instead you are only switching the packs or CDM's. There is a difference if you are switching wires. If you are switching wires (stator wires and trigger wires) then the problem is upstream of the packs or CDM's. So the question is, did you switch wires or packs? Let us know. Note pack #2 has a spare ckt (each pack has two ckts just like pack #1 serving both #1 and #2 cylinders) because your engine is a 3 cylinder type. On engines with 4 cylinders all ckts are in used.

When you switched the red for orange did you also switch the trigger wires? If you only switched the output to coil without switching the input from trigger there is nothing telling that side of the cd pack to fire.

What do you mean by switch the trigger wires? Take the ones to the number 1 and 2 pack? If so then yes i did that and when i use the connections normally going to the other pack i will then get spark on number three but lose it on 1 and 2. Or are you saying there is something i need to change to "activate" the red lead due to it being a 3 cylinder not a four?

 

[thelmuth]

Re: Timing effect spark?

Yes. on the pack there are 4 wires that connect to the trigger wires. The pack that feeds #3 cylinder is only using one pair of those wires. In order to supply spark to the other coil output you have to change to the other pair of wires from the pack. Your pack should have 3 wires that aren't connected, the one that goes to the coil and 2 that connect to the trigger.

outboardignition.com has a very thorough troubleshooting guide. You can also find wiring diagrams there.