To trim tab or not

[TMALEGA]

Ok so after reading a few posts and seeing that this is most likely a very hot subject, i will still venture out and ask this question.

I have a 1986 16 ft bayliner capri with a 1985 85hp force outboard on it. It does rather well in relation to speed and handling in light weather. I understand this is a rather small boat in the grand picture of boats. However when the water gets to be much more then a light chop of water which in oklahoma can come out of nowhere on a calm day, the boat gets rather rough riding and scary to turn to either side. I had mentioned this to a few people at local shops and at bass pro shop and they all said my boat was way to small to benefit from any type of smart tab setup. I had a good friend of mine that gave me the hydrofoil he had for his old 75hp before he got the new 175 optimax.

He suggested i put it on and see how it helped out. He has a 19 ft now if i remember correctly and had a 17ft with the 75 on it. Both of which were not as bad as mine was the other day with a 15 mph wind that came in while we were out. I guess the question at the end of all this is will smart tabs help on my boat given the small size of it, 2. What size should i be looking at for the smart tab system if any. Thanks guys you have all given me great advice and are the reason i have a much more solid hull then the boat before that fell apart on the way home before i had any knowledge on how to care for a boat.

I was thinking of atleast trying the fin on the motor since it was free and given to me but if the boat would help from the smart tabs why waste the time on the fin. Thanks again.

 

[smokeonthewater]

Re: To trim tab or not

nothing is going to make the hull handle rough water better..... No such thing as too small for tabs... heck they use em on dingys.... Sooooo yes and no.... sure they can help with what they are designed to do which is help get on plane and prevent porpoising but no they won't make your boat ride softer in rough water

 

[TMALEGA]

Re: To trim tab or not

Ok thank you smoke, what size would i be looking for.

 

[smokeonthewater]

Re: To trim tab or not

they call it 3 footitis for a reason...... you are in 16' now, you NEED a 19'...... next you'll NEED 22'....... then 25', 28', 31' etc

 

[TMALEGA]

Re: To trim tab or not

Yea but the money issue is the main reason i have to keep this one for a few years and save up to buy the next one, guess i will look into smart tabs, i wonder if the bayliner dealership would be any help.

 

[bick]

Re: To trim tab or not

Go here... http://www.nauticusinc.com/pdf/application_chart.pdf

 

[joewithaboat]

Re: To trim tab or not

I recently installed the 60lb smart tabs on a 19 foot v6 i/o and have nothing but good things to say about them. For the money it is the single best thing i have ever done to a boat. Most of my pervious boats have had a fin of some type. I like the tabs better. The fins seemed to sit the boats higher out of the water at speed, and made them "darty" steering at speed. At speed the tabs are retracted if set properly. I have zero bow lift now out of the hole! love em
And no i dont know anyone at or work for Naticus....

 

[Slow Ride]

Re: To trim tab or not

I have to agree with smokeonthewater. Trim tabs have their place but they are not going to do much for handling rough water for your boat. I have used them in several sizes of boats in the Corpus Christi Bay and the Gulf of Mexico. It is true that they will hold the bow down and keep you from "flying" of the top of waves. The consequence is that they shove the nose down and if there is another wave close behind the one you just went over, your going to dive right into the second wave. I had tabs on my 24 Champion TV bay boat. They helped me get up in shallow water (1-1.5 foot) but were only good in heavy seas for leveling the boat when it was heavy on one side. I wouldnt spend the money because I really don't think your going to see the benefit your looking for. Infact, it could get dangerous if you hit really rought water. If you have ever taken a wave over the bow of your boat and end up standing in 6-8 inches of water, then you know what I'm talking about. This will be a common occurance if you use the trim tabs to hold the boat in the water because the length of your boat is to short to use this technique.

I have them on my 31 foot fountain and I use them for exactly this reason. But, I have 31 foot of hull and it is at least 4 feet from the water to the top of the bow. I'll bet there is less than 2 feet on your bow. This means when it is in a downward attitude it will have only 1-1.5 feet of available bow to handle the next wave. Any wave larger than that an it is coming in the boat with you!

Been there, done that..........even in the fountain in 2-3 foot seas if you catch it just right you will get wet. My advice is to deal with the rough ride by slowing down to a save speed but keep the bow slightly higher than level and error on the side of to high, not low. Use the trim on the motor to achieve this.

If you do put trim tabs on your boat, please install a very good bilge pump system that can handle lots of water!

 

[joewithaboat]

Re: To trim tab or not

I have to agree with smokeonthewater. Trim tabs have their place but they are not going to do much for handling rough water for your boat. I have used them in several sizes of boats in the Corpus Christi Bay and the Gulf of Mexico. It is true that they will hold the bow down and keep you from "flying" of the top of waves. The consequence is that they shove the nose down and if there is another wave close behind the one you just went over, your going to dive right into the second wave. I had tabs on my 24 Champion TV bay boat. They helped me get up in shallow water (1-1.5 foot) but were only good in heavy seas for leveling the boat when it was heavy on one side. I wouldnt spend the money because I really don't think your going to see the benefit your looking for. Infact, it could get dangerous if you hit really rought water. If you have ever taken a wave over the bow of your boat and end up standing in 6-8 inches of water, then you know what I'm talking about. This will be a common occurance if you use the trim tabs to hold the boat in the water because the length of your boat is to short to use this technique.

I have them on my 31 foot fountain and I use them for exactly this reason. But, I have 31 foot of hull and it is at least 4 feet from the water to the top of the bow. I'll bet there is less than 2 feet on your bow. This means when it is in a downward attitude it will have only 1-1.5 feet of available bow to handle the next wave. Any wave larger than that an it is coming in the boat with you!

Been there, done that..........even in the fountain in 2-3 foot seas if you catch it just right you will get wet. My advice is to deal with the rough ride by slowing down to a save speed but keep the bow slightly higher than level and error on the side of to high, not low. Use the trim on the motor to achieve this.

If you do put trim tabs on your boat, please install a very good bilge pump system that can handle lots of water!

One of the lakes i frequent gets a little choppy sometimes and the tabs helped a ton with the on and off of the throttle because the bow dosent come up when getting back on the gas. Once again the tabs are fully retracted at speed if set properly. I have noticed the bow stays down more when rocking up and down. However you cant just mash the gas and go with a small boat in rough water.
I bet what you are calling rough water to a 31 foot boat is time to stay home for those of us with small boats. Not really a apples to apples comparison.
I have never seen anyone post who installed the smart tabs and not liked them. I have seen many people say that they shouldnt work well, which made me almost not try them. I am glad i did.

 

[Slow Ride]

Re: To trim tab or not

joewithaboat - that is exactly what I'm saying, the tabs really help big boats with this issue but so much for smaller vessels. I had them on my 24 ft Champion and had the problems I mentioned earlier. If the tabs help in other areas, great! If this man believes they are going to solve his rough water problems on a 16 foot boat he is mistaken. They will help the boat is very light chop, but anything that was "much more then a light chop of water" is still going to be a problem. We both agree however that speed and skilled driving is the key either way. I'm just saying it may not be worth the money, thats all?

 

[smokeonthewater]

Re: To trim tab or not

I believe that the tabs WILL do what they are designed to do but that is NOT making the boat ride softer in big water


FWIW I have seen a couple people post that they didn't like em but I've also seen dozens that loved em.

 

[joewithaboat]

Re: To trim tab or not

Slow Ride
Smart tabs that he is asking about cost $130.00 and are self adjusting. I find them very helpful in rough water being on and off the gas because they self adjust with a hydraulic actuators. They don?t work well at all for leveling out, side to side, because you would have to stop and reach overboard to adjust course adjustment. For killing bow rise they are GREAT! They also allow me to stay on plane all the way down to 18 mph hour, where before it fell off around 24 mph. This also helps maintain resonable speed in rough water. As the o/p is in Oklahoma, im thinking his rough water is not the same as what you are talking about being on the coast. I?m not trying to be argumentative im just saying smart tabs make a small boat all around much more useable in all water at all speeds. I almost did not try them because people compared them to helm adjustable electric or hydraulic on bigger boats. Again I have not seen one post of someone who has used them for a small boat, for which they are intended, report that they did not like them.
It is far and away the best $130.00 I have ever spent on a boat, and ive spent a little over the years.

 

[joewithaboat]

Re: To trim tab or not

I believe that the tabs WILL do what they are designed to do but that is NOT making the boat ride softer in big water


FWIW I have seen a couple people post that they didn't like em but I've also seen dozens that loved em.

Agreed I don?t know of anything that will make a short boat ride softer in BIG WATER except maybe wings.
They do however keep you from looking at the sky everytime you come off of plane and back on the gas, in rough water.
As I said above I almost didn?t try them because people with BG boats that had real trim tabs, bad mouthed them. I just don?t want the o/p to pass on a good thing. They do everything a fin does only better. Just my experience.

 

[chriscraft254]

Re: To trim tab or not

To answer the op's question, yes they will help in chop because the tabs operate independently of each other. The tabs will adjust up and down as you go over various sized waves independently. Kinda like but not exactly the same as a shock absorbers. They will improve your boat in many different ways. There worth checking out.

I'm assuming you are boating inland and not on the ocean, so these tabs should work perfect for you and your size boat.

Ok, guys, you know I have to say some more. Even the people with the smart tabs don't seem to understand some things that the smart tabs do.

The smart tabs are sized to the size/weight of the boat. They have adjustments on those tabs that will allow you to tune them. They do not bury the bow. If set properly they will still reduce the bow from being unreasonabley high out of the water, but if set properly, they will change very little, the amount the bow is out of the water when on plane.

The actuators are valved, once on a plane, they are reduced in pressure by a relief valve built into the actuators. This will still leave some pressure when on a plane. This is a good thing because the tabs react to changing conditions, keeping the boat more stable and more level.

Being that they are sized to the boat and adjustable, there should be no reason for the bow to get burried.You can still raise the bow by trimming the motor up to gain speed and also to adjust for different wave situations.

The smart tabs were designed for smaller boats than 26 ft, they would be perfect for the op's boat.

They even make smart tabs for small inflatables. The Navy uses them.

TMALEGA, I suggest you go to there website and do some research on exactly what they do. Then make up your own mind.If you have a question regarding the right size for you particular boat after reading the size charts on there web page, contact them and they will point you in the right direction. There a good company to deal with.

Like someone else said above, these were also the best thing I ever did to my boat as well.

By the way, here is a pic of my boat with the properly adjusted, properly sized smart tabs installed. Looks bow up to me.

 

[joewithaboat]

Re: To trim tab or not

To answer the op's question, yes they will help in chop because the tabs operate independently of each other. The tabs will adjust up and down as you go over various sized waves independently. Kinda like but not exactly the same as a shock absorbers. They will improve your boat in many different ways. There worth checking out.

I'm assuming you are boating inland and not on the ocean, so these tabs should work perfect for you and your size boat.

Ok, guys, you know I have to say some more. Even the people with the smart tabs don't seem to understand some things that the smart tabs do.

The smart tabs are sized to the size/weight of the boat. They have adjustments on those tabs that will allow you to tune them. They do not bury the bow. If set properly they will still reduce the bow from being unreasonabley high out of the water, but if set properly, they will change very little, the amount the bow is out of the water when on plane.

The actuators are valved, once on a plane, they are reduced in pressure by a relief valve built into the actuators. This will still leave some pressure when on a plane. This is a good thing because the tabs react to changing conditions, keeping the boat more stable and more level.

Being that they are sized to the boat and adjustable, there should be no reason for the bow to get burried.You can still raise the bow by trimming the motor up to gain speed and also to adjust for different wave situations.

The smart tabs were designed for smaller boats than 26 ft, they would be perfect for the op's boat.

They even make smart tabs for small inflatables. The Navy uses them.

TMALEGA, I suggest you go to there website and do some research on exactly what they do. Then make up your own mind.If you have a question regarding the right size for you particular boat after reading the size charts on there web page, contact them and they will point you in the right direction. There a good company to deal with.

Like someone else said above, these were also the best thing I ever did to my boat as well.

chriscraft254
Well said, except I understand exactly how they work. I did mistakenly say that they are hydraulic when if fact they are gas actuated. You however did a much better job of explaining it. thanks

 

[chriscraft254]

Re: To trim tab or not

Your welcome. There are a lot of misbeliefs out there about these tabs. I believe slow ride was talking more about helm controlled tabs than these.

Also I must add, no tabs are going to be the fix all for a 16 ft boat in rough seas, but these do help alot in stabilization, quartering seas, turning etc. Any 16 footer in 2 to 4foot seas is going to get pounded with or without tabs. But I bet you get pounded less and have better control with them.

TMALEGA , be aware that if you beach alot, having a 16 ft boat will probably require you to get there flip up adapter so you don't get them caught on the bottom. Being that mine is longer, I have never had an issue, because i usually have atleast 2 ft of water under the boat.

TMALEGA, You mentioned turning is scary, these tabs will greatly help you in turns. They keep the boat more level in turns automatically and you can turn tighter without loss of speed and without cavitation. This was a big help on my boat.

 

[high'n'dry]

Re: To trim tab or not

Nothing makes more difference than helm controllable tabs in the ride and ability to keep going in the rough stuff. The biggest difference is running into chop, being able to trim bow down at reduced speeds that would normally have the bow up is huge. It is as if you suddenly had a much larger boat.

Those lakes in Oklahoma and similar large impounds in that part of the world can become significantly rough, even compared to the Gulf in similar winds, and it can BLOW hard in Oklahoma, for days and days, the large lakes can be very rough. Generally in such conditions most small bow riders should stay on their trailers.

 

[rallyart]

Re: To trim tab or not

TMALEGA, no one has commented on what the fins will do on a small boat like yours so I'll just give you specifics about them. The fins cut down bow rise so you can get on plane faster and travel slower with the bow low enough to see over. In a storm or on rough water this means you can pick your speed more easily and get a more comfortable ride. In the same hull you will find speeds that you just cannot travel in a storm without your fins on but can handle going in to the waves with the fins on. The difference can be that you pound yourself silly on plane or have to fast idle to ride the rollers if you travel into the wind with the stock hull. With the hydrofoil on you have a much wider range of speed to travel and can set the attitude of the hull better for the conditions. If you have the fins now it is certainly cheap to try them and they absolutely will improve the ability of your hull to handle a storm, once you learn what you can do. My old 18' was immensely better in the rough after I put my Stingray hydrofoil on it. Travelling once beside a much newer 20' bowrider in a bad storm I could vary my speed much more than him and wound up leaving him behind. That should not happen in a smaller boat.
As high'n'dry stated the best solution is a helm adjustable set of tabs but they are also the most expensive. Again, you need to take the time to learn what they do. My lake can get 5' waves from calm in less than 10 minutes as a thunderstorm comes around a mountain. You need to be albe to handle weather when it arrives.

 

[TMALEGA]

Re: To trim tab or not

Ok thank you for all the information everyone. I do appreciate it.

I would like to mention that i do know that i cant go out in all weather and when the winds are above say 15 mph i stay home. That is just a rough estimate due to me taking everything into account. Things like the lake layout and which way the wind is going can i stay in a cove and be near a ramp, things like that plus some more. However this is oklahoma and anyone that has been will most likely agree it can change in a blink of a eye. Also i know that speed and all that affects the waves. I know nothing will help completly smooth out the ride, i was just wondering what kind of benefits i would see from them and if i have been told the truth that my boat was too small for them, also i was looking for something to help out in the at max 2 ft waves we get into, and something to help not scare the crap out of me when i turn in any kind of waves. I found a local supplier that has the nauticas smart tabs for 230.00 this weekend. He is a bayliner dealer and said he wont sell any boat without them if he can keep from it. As he put it they help any size boat due to being able to control speed better to handle the waves. Not jumping up and pointing the nose up in the air so easy.

Thank you again for everyone giving the time to respond, after reading them all today and talking to the dealer. He even suggested that if i have the fin already to try it out and if it helps then he would suggest saving up for the tabs. If it doesnt then to bring the boat and he will take a look and see if it is just the set up of the motor or something else and go from there.

 

[joewithaboat]

Re: To trim tab or not

I used the newer SX smart tabs, they are plastic and were only $130.00. They have been on for 16 or 18 weekends to the lake mostly tubing and cruising, no problems yet. I was a little scared of the plastic, but its pretty tough stuff. The same type as a fin im sure.
Good luck!