Took MC-1 drive off boat, Water in bellows?

[cecho]

I just took the drive off the boat and this is what greeted me inside, what should I do next? Could this just be from condensation?

 

[Grub54891]

Re: Took MC-1 drive off boat, Water in bellows?

That appears to be more than condasation.the bellows are more than likely bad,u- joints too. And the gimble bearing is bad from water getting to it.I'd replace the whole works and a new shift cable while you are there.
Grub

 

[cecho]

Re: Took MC-1 drive off boat, Water in bellows?

Any idea what part numbers I'll need or where I can find what part numbers my boat uses? I had an excellent parts book for my OMC. I don't have that for my mercruiser.

Searching for 898 or MC-1 on the iboats parts database doesn't seem to help me any.

Thanks!


I'm guessing I need:

2x 9-72404 (U-joints)
1x 18-2100 (Gimbal Bearings) (Bellows kit might have this)
1x bellow kit (0-803098T1 or 30-803097T1 No idea what the difference is)
1x shift cable (looking for number)


On top of my current shopping list:
1x 18-2648 (Upper Unit Seal Kit - Sierra)
1x 18-3217 (Water Pump Kit - Sierra)
1x 18-2614 (Outdrive Gasket Set for Mercruiser) (Looks like Bellows kit might have this?)



The drive does shift smoothly. Is replacing the cable just a precaution, or will if surely go bad?

What special tools will I need to do this job?

I'm guessing this tool set is what I need:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Alignment-B..._Accessories_Gear&vxp=mtr&hash=item3f22b23537
and that I can do this:
http://www.mercstuff.com/gimbalbearing1.htm
instead of get this:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Gimbal-Bear..._Accessories_Gear&vxp=mtr&hash=item4851df8213



What else do I need to be looking at knowing there was water in the bellows?


.

 

[wrench 3]

Re: Took MC-1 drive off boat, Water in bellows?

The "U" joints look like they may be OK. Make sure the flex smoothly and have no play in them. The bellows kit has the Gimbel bearing. The 30-803097T1 has an exhaust bellows and the 30-803098T1 has an exhaust tube. The tube will give you more exhaust at the transom at idle but is a lot easer to install than the bellows. 30-803097T1 can be replaced by Sierra 18-2601-1 and 30-803098T1 by 18-8205. You mite want to add an 18-2820 gasket for a better fit.
Don't forget the bellows adhesive.
A bad shift cable will usually give you a stalling problem when shifting gears, especially into neutral. It can also show up as a problem finding neutral.

 

[wrench 3]

Re: Took MC-1 drive off boat, Water in bellows?

The mercstuff.com system won't work with those bearings. However a standard slide hammer will work. Use a hook end inside the bearing and drive a large chisel in beside it to hold it in place. You will need something like a large pipe to drive it back in by the outer ring. Maybe one of the disks in the tool set is meant for that.

 

[cecho]

Re: Took MC-1 drive off boat, Water in bellows?

I've ordered 18-8205 which means I won't need the bellows install tool. I won't need the bearing install tool either if I use a 3" piece of pvc pipe and a freezer as well. The hard part will be getting the bearing out of there. I'll soak it a few times with PB blaster, rent as slide hammer and see what I can do.

91-78310 and 91-57797A3 should be all I need if I'm correct.

 

[elkhunter338]

Re: Took MC-1 drive off boat, Water in bellows?

I had this happen a couple years ago, next what happen was the upper seal went out in the outdrive because the seal surface rusted.
Then I started getting outdrive grease in the bellows.
Don't forget there is a seal on the shift shaft, there is an upgraded seal if yours still has the old style.

 

[cecho]

Re: Took MC-1 drive off boat, Water in bellows?

The u-joints seem feel smooth and seem to still have grease in them. If I skip replacing them and grease them up for now I'm guessing I can just check them again after and hour of running to make sure they're still ok. I've got the u-joints soaking in WD40 and the gimbal bearing soaking in PB blaster right now.

How can I check the integrity of the upper seal? Will a pressure and vacuum test of the out-drive accomplished that? I don't see any rust back there. The only rust I do see is a few blotches on the u-joints.

 

[Cresco750]

Re: Took MC-1 drive off boat, Water in bellows?

My MC-1 had a small amount of water in the bellows a few months back; turned out to be the shift shaft upper seal. Had that replaced, and checked the internals of the bellows 20 hours later and it's deffinately fixed the problem.

 

[dubs283]

Re: Took MC-1 drive off boat, Water in bellows?

The u-joints seem feel smooth and seem to still have grease in them. If I skip replacing them and grease them up for now I'm guessing I can just check them again after and hour of running to make sure they're still ok. I've got the u-joints soaking in WD40 and the gimbal bearing soaking in PB blaster right now.

you may be able to get away with not replacing the u-joints if they feel smooth

once you pull out the gimbal bearing you should replace it, plastic pvc is not going to work for installing a gimbal bearing - i use a 48 oz hammer with a steel installer and that takes a good half dozen whacks to seat the bearing

How can I check the integrity of the upper seal? Will a pressure and vacuum test of the out-drive accomplished that? I don't see any rust back there. The only rust I do see is a few blotches on the u-joints.

drain the lube and pressure test the drive, a vacuum test will fail everytime due to the upper yoke seal design

if there was water in the bellows that means the bellows failed, there is a quad ring between the bellows and shift shaft area that prevents water to pass between them

 

[ktbarrentine]

Re: Took MC-1 drive off boat, Water in bellows?

The u-joints seem feel smooth and seem to still have grease in them. If I skip replacing them and grease them up for now I'm guessing I can just check them again after and hour of running to make sure they're still ok. I've got the u-joints soaking in WD40 and the gimbal bearing soaking in PB blaster right now.

How can I check the integrity of the upper seal? Will a pressure and vacuum test of the out-drive accomplished that? I don't see any rust back there. The only rust I do see is a few blotches on the u-joints.

Don't remember seeing this in your posts, but how did your drive oil look? That's a good indicator of what you might see when you do a pressure (and/or vacuum) test. I pressure test my outdrive halves while split, before and after impeller servicing, then again after mating the halves. I pressure test to 15 PSIG and vacuum test to 5" hg max for a few hours each. Any more vacuum and the yoke seal doesn't seem to want to play along.
Post maintenance integrity of the bell housing quad seal, cooling water o-ring and bell housing gasket are a function of good craftsmanship and installation practices (like using a bit of bellows adhesive on the quad seal to hold it in place during drive installation). Good luck!

 

[Augie56]

Re: Took MC-1 drive off boat, Water in bellows?

If you want to try and re-use the u-joints, I would take your grease gun, attach it to the zirc fittings, and SLOWLY pump fresh grease into them. Go slow, so you can push out the old grease and (hopefully) whatever water there may inside them. Have your rag handy and keep wiping away the grease until you see fresh. Doing this would give me piece of mind if this were my boat.

 

[cecho]

Re: Took MC-1 drive off boat, Water in bellows?

Here's what came out of the out-drive. I did not see any free water at all, but I don't like the color of the metallic sheen.



The results of stirring a magnet through the oil several times along the bottom:


I'm hoping this ins't my next step:
http://www.sterndrive.cc/mm5/mercha...plete&Category_Code=MercruiserAlphaSterndrive

 

[wrench 3]

Re: Took MC-1 drive off boat, Water in bellows?

It's a little hard to tell from the picture, but if those are actual metallic flakes the case hardening on a gear or bearing is flaking off. I wouldn't say that you need a complete replacement drive, but you at least need to tare it down and see what's going on.

 

[cecho]

Re: Took MC-1 drive off boat, Water in bellows?

Yes, they are indeed metallic flakes. I don't know what they are from though. I'll start the tear down of the drive. What special tool will I need to find out what's going on?

I'm obviously holding off on the water pump until I can tell if I need a new drive or not. The bellows and gimbal bearing will need to be redone regardless of what I do so I've already ordered those parts. I will go ahead and order an actual gimbal bearing and seal install tool as well.

Do I need to get a Drive Shaft Bellow Sleeve Installation Tool?


A quick search shows the cost of the tools to rebuild the low end of the alpha one are absurdly expensive and pretty much mandatory.

So my logic train looks like this:
Metal flakes means I'm almost certainly going to have bad bearings and possibly bad gears
Bad bearings means I need new bearings.
Bad Gears means I need new gears.
The cost for the tools to replace the bearings > The cost of a low end.
I'll need to buy a Low end at the least.
Top end may also be damaged.
Wait for advice... Logic train to be continued...


I think I'll start another thread for this new problem.
Started new post here:
http://forums.iboats.com/mercruiser...y-mc-1-time-new-drive-593488.html#post4120488

 

[cecho]

Just drained the oil from my MC-1... Time for a new drive?

Just drained the oil from my MC-1... Time for a new drive?

Here's what came out of the out-drive. I did not see any free water at all, but I don't like the color of the metallic sheen.



The results of stirring a magnet through the oil several times along the bottom:


I'm hoping this ins't my next step:
Sterndrive Engineering: 1.47 Complete
- or -
http://www.sterndrive.cc/mm5/mercha...plete&Category_Code=MercruiserAlphaSterndrive


These are definitely metallic flakes. I don't know what they are from though.

A quick search shows the cost of the tools to rebuild the low end of the alpha one are absurdly expensive and pretty much mandatory.

So my logic train looks like this:
Metal flakes means I'm almost certainly going to have bad bearings and possibly bad gears
Bad bearings means I need new bearings.
Bad Gears means I need new gears.
The cost for the tools to replace the bearings > The cost of a low end.
I'll need to buy a Low end at the least.
Top end may also be damaged.
Wait for advice... Logic train to be continued...


Extra info: Assuming the Hobbs meter is correct (It works), The outdrive and engine have less than 600 hours on them. The boat was winterized about 18 months ago. The engine (Chevy 305 / Merc 898) looks to have been treated very well. The boat is in excellent shape and is easily worth putting a new outdrive on.

 

[HT32BSX115]

Re: Just drained the oil from my MC-1... Time for a new drive?

Re: Just drained the oil from my MC-1... Time for a new drive?

Well, consider that the "Upper" shares oil with the "Lower"

Just replacing the "lower" without at least disassembling/inspecting/resealing the "upper" risks destroying an otherwise "ok' lower and causing you do repeat the process in the not-too-distant future.

Disassembly/reassembly//rebuilding & resealing both could easily exceed the cost of an SEI that comes with a 3 year ("NO-hassle") warranty.

Extra info: Assuming the Hobbs meter is correct (It works), The outdrive and engine have less than 600 hours on them

You bought this boat new?

My last boat had about 1500 hrs on it when I got it from my dad in 1997. The "Hobbs" meter failed in the mid 1980's. I replaced it in 2003 with a meter that had about 600 hrs on it....... ymmv


I would drain/replace the oil, run it and see. Start a drive fund (for a new SEI)


Regards,


Rick

 

[wrench 3]

Re: Took MC-1 drive off boat, Water in bellows?

To disassembly the drive you need two special tools, 18-9803 for the drive shaft housing retainer nut in the upper gear case, and 18-9858 for the bearing carrier retainer nut in the lower unit. You can modify a standard wrench for the pinion nut. The bearing carrier can be removed with a large two jaw puller. Overhauling as a whole new ball game for tools. But if you just want to look inside, the bearing carrier nut can be removed by drilling a hole in it to weaken it and then turning it with a hammer and punch. The drive shaft housing nut can also be removed with a hammer and punch, but both nuts will not be reusable.

 

[cecho]

Re: Took MC-1 drive off boat, Water in bellows?

I'll disassemble the drive by drilling the old parts off. If the drive turns out to be good (which I currently doubt), what special tools will replacing the bearings and reassembling the drives require?

 

[wrench 3]

Re: Took MC-1 drive off boat, Water in bellows?

To make the tool list go faster, just add an 18- in front of all the numbers. You would need 9817, 9820, 9854, 9855, 9856 and 9874. This is not including seal drivers that are fairly universal and/or easy to make. And the two wrenches that we mentioned earlier. No guaranties I didn't miss any thing, but I think thats all of them.