Top dead center?

Steven D

Seaman
Joined
Jul 12, 2009
Messages
55
How do you get the #1 piston at TDC on a Mercruiser 160/1 drive (1969 vintage)? I'm trying to re-install the distributer on the above and can't seem to get lucky using the starter to end up on TDC. On an auto there's room to get a breaker bar on the crank and turn things over but I'm not seeing that happen with the front motor mount in the way. Whats the trick?

Thanks

Steven
 

P 0 P E Y E

Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Jun 3, 2009
Messages
441
Re: Top dead center?

The trick I use is to remove no. 1 plug

Put your finger over the vacant spark plug hole and bump the starter (use a jumper with a button)

When you feel the air against your finger on the compression stroke Slow down and watch the timing card as the slot in the pulley gets closer and closer.
 

Steven D

Seaman
Joined
Jul 12, 2009
Messages
55
Re: Top dead center?

It won't turn by hand, I've tried tightening up the pully on the water pump/alternator and using that but no go.

Bump starting with the key seems to move it in large increments, I've not tried it with the plugs in but can't see that making that much of a difference...

Where do you attach the bump starter on a boat? Long time since I've used one of those (or a wrench as much as I've been since taking on this project :)

Thanks,

Steven
 

79monarch

Cadet
Joined
May 31, 2009
Messages
26
Re: Top dead center?

Can you put it in gear and turn it over by turning the prop by hand ?
 

Bifflefan

Commander
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May 27, 2009
Messages
2,933
Re: Top dead center?

It won't turn by hand, I've tried tightening up the pully on the water pump/alternator and using that but no go.

Bump starting with the key seems to move it in large increments, I've not tried it with the plugs in but can't see that making that much of a difference...

Where do you attach the bump starter on a boat? Long time since I've used one of those (or a wrench as much as I've been since taking on this project :)

Thanks,

Steven

Put all the plugs back in leaving #1 out. then you can bump it and it wont go so far. with all of them out there is no compression to stop the motor from turning freely.
 

ziggy

Admiral
Joined
Jun 30, 2004
Messages
7,473
Re: Top dead center?

i turned mine over by hand just today...

take the plugs out.
the trick. get a strap wrench. i strap it onto the waterpump pulley.
turn it over.
i'd think the put yer finger over (or maybe use a compression gauge) the #1 hole would get ya on to the compression stroke of #1. bring the timing mark up to 0.
should be tdc...

edit. point yer distributor rotor a shade to the left i think. as it seats, it'll wind up clockwise and end up pointing at #1... ya may have to turn the oil pump slot a little to to get the flat in the dist. shaft to line up with the oil pump and then let the dist. gears mesh...
 
Last edited:

JustJason

Vice Admiral
Joined
Aug 27, 2007
Messages
5,321
Re: Top dead center?

I can turn it with the balancer by hand if everything is clean and dry (including my hands) as long as the plugs are out.... But then again... I'm Muscles McGee :)










Or maybe that's meathead magoo.... these roids drive me crazy sometimes.

Should be able to spin the balancer with the plugs out though.
 

Ithinkican

Cadet
Joined
Jul 22, 2009
Messages
7
Re: Top dead center?

What i found to be easiest was to put the boat in gear and take a break bar to the nut on the prop, just make sure you are going in the direction that would tighten it, dont worry you wont over tighten it because the engine will be roatating, just have someone do that while you wait for the compression and then ease it to top dead center.
 

KRH1326

Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Sep 22, 2007
Messages
491
Re: Top dead center?

I use a TDC bolt. You can get them from JEGS or Comp Cams.

http://www.jegs.com/webapp/wcs/stor...op&Ntx=mode+matchpartial&Dx=mode+matchpartial

Real cheap. It is basically a nut and bolt. The "nut" is also threaded on the outside, and it matches your sparkplug thread.
Pull all the plugs.
Use the bump and finger method to make sure you get compression stroke.
You screw it into #1 plug hole, then extend the bolt down into cylinder.
Use a breaker bar and catch the very center, large nut on the crank. If your engine runs, you should very easily be able to smoothly turn the crank.
GO SLOW AND EASY untill the piston stops against bolt.

Make a reference mark on the damper. Turn the crank BACKWARDS, it will not do any harm, SLOW AND EASY till the piston comes back up and touches the bolt. Make a reference mark on the damper.

REMOVE the TDC Bolt. TDC is exactly dead center between your two reference marks.:cool:

This method is great if you can no longer find your timing marks:)
 

79monarch

Cadet
Joined
May 31, 2009
Messages
26
Re: Top dead center?

I am curious...have you done this before?
Only on my 1974 merc 115h.p. inline 6 outboard to make sure it wasn't seized before I bought it. So I have no idea whether it would work on his setup or not.
 

gadget73

Petty Officer 1st Class
Joined
Jun 20, 2009
Messages
308
Re: Top dead center?

If you're using one of those dead stop bolts, do NOT use the starter or you risk punching a hole right through the piston. These must be used with something to manually turn the engine.

I also pull the plugs on mine, but I can get a breaker bar on the crank pulley fairly easy. If youj can't, try the water pump or alternator pulley. If the belt slips, make it nice and tight. There shouldn't be enough friction in the engine with it in N and with no plugs that the belt won't be able to turn the motor over.
 

Steven D

Seaman
Joined
Jul 12, 2009
Messages
55
Re: Top dead center?

Got it thanks. As there is no way to get to the crank on this install (front motor mount is in the way) I was able to get it to turn over by using a bar to leverage between two of the bolts on the water pump pulley and tightening the belt up good. Now on to getting it timed, re-installing plugs, new exhaust riser, new impeller, and rebuilding the carb... I just may make it to the water before the summers gone.

Thanks to all reply's.

Steven
 

T-Max

Seaman
Joined
Jul 2, 2010
Messages
64
Re: Top dead center?

If you're using one of those dead stop bolts, do NOT use the starter or you risk punching a hole right through the piston. These must be used with something to manually turn the engine.

I also pull the plugs on mine, but I can get a breaker bar on the crank pulley fairly easy. If youj can't, try the water pump or alternator pulley. If the belt slips, make it nice and tight. There shouldn't be enough friction in the engine with it in N and with no plugs that the belt won't be able to turn the motor over.
I stumbled on this old thread and just HAD to reply. I completely agree with your assessment -- and then some!

I took a look at those bolts that were linked and I gotta say that unless there's some good reason for using one of those -- which I just can't think of -- they gotta be one of the more lame AND dangerous 'tools' I've ever encountered.

Finding TDC on #1 cylinder is really mind-numbingly simple for anyone who's at all familiar with engine mechanics. On a 4-stroke engine, which is what we're talking about here, you could simply start with the timing mark for TDC, which absolutely puts you at TDC. The problem, however, is that the piston goes to TDC twice on every full rotation of the crank. This is because on a 4-stroke engine there are 4 strokes (duh!): intake, compression, power, exhaust. TDC happens at the beginning of the intake and power strokes; and if you're doing what Steven was doing here, you want TDC on the power stroke, not the intake stroke.

To distinguish between the two, you can do what has been suggested here, which is to simply feel for compression at the #1 spark plug hole, etc.

So, my point on this "dead stop bolt" thing is that it seems to me that the only folks who'd need such a thing would be folks who don't really have a very good grasp on the fundamentals of how a 4-stroke engine works. Otherwise, they'd know how you go about finding TDC for #1 cylinder on its power stroke.

So that sets up the scenario where you have a rather uninformed tinkerer screwing one of these things into his spark plug hole and then quite probably cranking his engine over with the starter motor, and thus likely smashing his piston into this freaking bolt thing, resulting in a damaged piston -- either cracked or with a freaking hole in it. A skilled mechanic, like yourself, would know better, of course. But a skilled mechanic wouldn't likely ever use one of these gizmos in the first place.

The only 'good' use I can see for one of these things is to maybe screw one into the engine of your ex-wife's new Porsche -- which she bought with the money she stole from you over the years.

Now THERE'S a thought. :D
 
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