Towing capacity - opinions needed

[Otis357]

Hi All, had a question regarding towing capacity... Considering buying my first boat and have a few models in mind and have kicked a few tires lately on a few of the nicer ones. Went out to see a 99 Sylvan Expedition 1600 today with a 50hp merc 4 stroke and I really like it. I checked into the all up weight, and it looks like the boat is 850lbs, motor is 250lbs, trailer is 300lbs. A full 60l tank of fuel and some gear would add another 120lbs or so which takes me up to 1520lbs total weight.

My vehicle is a 2003 Honda CRV with a 5 speed manual.... the book says I have a 1500lb towing limit and this combination is right on the top of the range. Fuel and gear can be removed to bring the tow load a little under the limit, but I have to wonder if Im asking for trouble here? Will the vehicle be able to pull this load up a boat ramp? Am I risking clutch problems pulling so close to the max load on an almost 10 year old car?

Will this be OK, or should I be revising my target boat to reduce the overall weight and add a larger safety margin?

Thanks... Jon

 

[JB]

Re: Towing capacity - opinions needed

Hi, Otis.

Yes, you would be asking for serious trouble towing that rig with anything rated for less than 2000-2500#

I would be hesitant to hook it up to my Forester (rated for 2000#).

 

[642mx]

Re: Towing capacity - opinions needed

Its not so much as "can I tow it" as "can I stop it?" Your CRV will tow more than its rated for, BUT it may not stop the vehicle and trailer in an emergency situation. If you have a wreck while overloaded, your insurance may not cover anything.

 

[KD4UPL]

Re: Towing capacity - opinions needed

You said you're going to remove gear to get under the weight limit? So you won't be taking it along? You do realize that any weight you put in the tow vehicle must be subtracted from it's tow rating? Right? If you intend to put several people and gear in the CRV while towing you must subtract their weight from the tow rating. The bottom line is you need a bigger vehicle.

 

[Jerryh3]

Re: Towing capacity - opinions needed

I once towed a ton of pellets with my CRV. It was only about a 10 mile trip but I thought I was going to die. IMO, even at #1500, that load would be too much.

 

[Skagit]

Re: Towing capacity - opinions needed

You do realize that any weight you put in the tow vehicle must be subtracted from it's tow rating? Right?

Wha?

Tow rating is what the vehicle can pull (or stop). Max vehicle weight is what the vehicle can hold. Max combined is the total of the whole package.

If his truck can pull 1500 lbs and he moves 100 lbs. of gear from the boat to the truck it doesn't make his towing capacity 1400 lbs. It just adds it to his vehicle weight, which must be kept under the published max, and everything needs to be under max combined.

Still, I agree that it's too close.

--Skagit out.

 

[Titanium48]

Re: Towing capacity - opinions needed

I've pulled a heavier boat (1800 lb fully loaded) with a smaller vehicle (Saturn S-series FWD car, 2400 lb curb weight). I encountered no stability problems in 5000 km of towing, including several trips through mountainous terrain in British Columbia. Hauling the boat out on steep launch ramps was a bit hard on the clutch and traction was an issue if the launch wasn't paved, but otherwise the setup worked great. I wouldn't have attempted it without trailer brakes though, being able to stop quickly is important.

I'm assuming your CRV is 4wd, which will solve the traction issue. The CRV is bigger and heavier than my Saturn and probably has more braking power, but trailer brakes would still be a good idea. I wouldn't worry too much about the clutch unless you plan on launching frequently on steep ramps. If you're like me and haven't mastered the "heel-toe" technique of operating the gas and the brake at the same time, just keep one hand on the e-brake to stop from rolling back while getting started on the ramp.

 

[JB]

Re: Towing capacity - opinions needed

I've pulled a heavier boat (1800 lb fully loaded) with a smaller vehicle (Saturn S-series FWD car, 2400 lb curb weight)..

Who held your beer while you did this stunt, Titanium?

 

[Titanium48]

Re: Towing capacity - opinions needed

Ha ha. I don't drink while driving or boating. Anywhere outside of North America, pulling a trailer that is 75% of the weight of the tow vehicle is considered quite normal. Replace the 1800 lb boat and 2400 lb car with a 3600 lb boat and a 4800 lb half-ton pickup and the same thing is considered normal here. Same weight ratio. North American tow ratings are very conservative on vehicles other than pickup trucks. We had a good discussion on that here a couple years ago: http://forums.iboats.com/showthread.php?t=297077

 

[Bounce19712]

Re: Towing capacity - opinions needed

maybe once or twice, without hills, and a nice lonnng boat ramp. and or three strong guys to help at the ramps... Otherwise, no I would say....I did not put much thought into keeping my 5000# Towing weight toyota Tundra v6 2wd with my 5000 pound boat and trailer... had to trade in and get a bigger tow vehicle....Sieera 4x4 6.0l

Of course many, many people do just what you're considering every day, ..saw a few at the boat ramp every outing. They'll be the ones getting help to push their car up the ramp...smelling clutch, spinning tires.

Crv allwheel drive is cool though, we had a non all wheel drive 2002 model I think.

as an old guy, I would not do it...but if you're young and courageous...it's possible.

 

[bigdee]

Re: Towing capacity - opinions needed

Hitch it up and give it a trial run. It is the only way you will know for certain unless someone can post a similar experience . If it doesn't work out or you feel uncomfortable move on to plan B.

 

[Sixmark]

Re: Towing capacity - opinions needed

Wha?

Tow rating is what the vehicle can pull (or stop). Max vehicle weight is what the vehicle can hold. Max combined is the total of the whole package.

If his truck can pull 1500 lbs and he moves 100 lbs. of gear from the boat to the truck it doesn't make his towing capacity 1400 lbs. It just adds it to his vehicle weight, which must be kept under the published max, and everything needs to be under max combined.

Still, I agree that it's too close.

--Skagit out.

Actually he is correct, if what you are saying was true then it would be perfectly ok to set the boat rig on the roof of the tow vehicle and not affect the towing capacity.......which just IS NOT the case.

 

[Sixmark]

Re: Towing capacity - opinions needed

Ha ha. I don't drink while driving or boating. Anywhere outside of North America, pulling a trailer that is 75% of the weight of the tow vehicle is considered quite normal. Replace the 1800 lb boat and 2400 lb car with a 3600 lb boat and a 4800 lb half-ton pickup and the same thing is considered normal here. Same weight ratio. North American tow ratings are very conservative on vehicles other than pickup trucks. We had a good discussion on that here a couple years ago: http://forums.iboats.com/showthread.php?t=297077

So are you trying to say that people should just disregard the ratings? There are reasons that the ratings are different here in North America. If you don't agree with them then that is your choice, but to tell people to go for it .......not the right choice by any means. I see people with overloaded rigs all the time end up in a ditch, ambulance, hospital, or morgue, and the cause was the vehicle not being able to handle the load.

 

[KD4UPL]

Re: Towing capacity - opinions needed

Wha?

Tow rating is what the vehicle can pull (or stop). Max vehicle weight is what the vehicle can hold. Max combined is the total of the whole package.

If his truck can pull 1500 lbs and he moves 100 lbs. of gear from the boat to the truck it doesn't make his towing capacity 1400 lbs. It just adds it to his vehicle weight, which must be kept under the published max, and everything needs to be under max combined.

Still, I agree that it's too close.

--Skagit out.

Tow ratings are generally figured assuming a stripped down empty tow vehicle with a 150 pound driver. They subtract this weight from the GCWR and arrive at a tow rating. This DOES mean that every pound you add to the vehicle in passengers and gear gets subtracted from the tow rating. Many people don't realize this because they don't read the owners manual and the fine print.

 

[H20Rat]

Re: Towing capacity - opinions needed

Tow ratings are generally figured assuming a stripped down empty tow vehicle with a 150 pound driver. They subtract this weight from the GCWR and arrive at a tow rating. This DOES mean that every pound you add to the vehicle in passengers and gear gets subtracted from the tow rating. Many people don't realize this because they don't read the owners manual and the fine print.

no, it doesn't... Lots of incorrect information in this thread so far...


It depends what the limiting factor was in determining the tow rating. They are related, but it isn't a direct one to one in all cases. They do not assume a 150 pound driver, some vehicles allow for much higher cargo on board before the tow rating + cargo will exceed the GCWR. A good example is a frame based truck vs its identical SUV based cousin. They likely will have identical tow ratings and GCWR due to identical brakes/drivetrain/frame, but the SUV, being heavier by nature, will hit the GCWR much quicker. You might be able to squish 6 people in the truck before the cargo+tow rating exceeded GCWR, but only 2 people in the SUV. And yes, there are vehicles out there were you will exceed the GCWR with just a single person plus fuel if you are at max tow. (in other words, tow rating is meaningless, GCWR becomes the limiting factor. This happens more as you move up into larger to vehicles, 1 ton and larger.)

 

[Silvertip]

Re: Towing capacity - opinions needed

Go to page 3 of this document to see what GM says about trailing/tow limits. You might find the same holds true for most manufacturers. In summary it says tow ratings are for a base vehicle and the driver. Whatever you put in or on the vehicle must be subtracted from the tow limit. It has been that way for ages and will likely continue to be that way in the future,.

http://www.chevrolet.com/assets/pdf/en/overview/11_Trailering_Guide.pdf

 

[Titanium48]

Re: Towing capacity - opinions needed

So are you trying to say that people should just disregard the ratings? There are reasons that the ratings are different here in North America. If you don't agree with them then that is your choice, but to tell people to go for it .......not the right choice by any means. I see people with overloaded rigs all the time end up in a ditch, ambulance, hospital, or morgue, and the cause was the vehicle not being able to handle the load.

There are no standards for tow ratings in North America. Manufacturers can set them however they like, so they don't really mean much. Honda UK rated the 2002-2006 CRV to tow 1500 kg (3300 lb). Somehow I doubt that putting the steering wheel on the other side magically cuts the towing capability of the vehicle in half.

A 1600 lb boat isn't going to put a 3300 lb CRV into the ditch any easier than a 2500 lb boat will put a 5000 lb F-150 in the ditch. The physics are the same in both cases.

 

[Sixmark]

Re: Towing capacity - opinions needed

There are no standards for tow ratings in North America. Manufacturers can set them however they like, so they don't really mean much. Honda UK rated the 2002-2006 CRV to tow 1500 kg (3300 lb). Somehow I doubt that putting the steering wheel on the other side magically cuts the towing capability of the vehicle in half.

A 1600 lb boat isn't going to put a 3300 lb CRV into the ditch any easier than a 2500 lb boat will put a 5000 lb F-150 in the ditch. The physics are the same in both cases.

Are the vehicles equipped with the identical packages? The same brakes? Suspension? Once you exceed the suggested maximums then you take your chances.....what we are dealing with is more than just the ability to move the load back and forth down the street, you need to be able to stop and corner safely as well. GVW, towing capacities, tongue weights, and axle weights all come into play......and most people have no clue regarding any of them.

 

[DBreskin]

Re: Towing capacity - opinions needed

Tow ratings are generally figured assuming a stripped down empty tow vehicle with a 150 pound driver. They subtract this weight from the GCWR and arrive at a tow rating. This DOES mean that every pound you add to the vehicle in passengers and gear gets subtracted from the tow rating. Many people don't realize this because they don't read the owners manual and the fine print.

Here's an excerpt from my 2007 Honda Pilot 4WD owner's manual regarding towing:
Gross Vehicle Weight Rating (GVWR) - The maximum allowable weight of the vehicle, all occupants, all cargo and the tongue load is 5,950 lbs.
Gross Combined Weight Rating (GCWR) - The maximum allowable weight of the fully loaded vehicle and trailer is 9,700 lbs.

Total Trailer Weight and Tongue Load Limits for boat trailers:
# of occupants / Max trailer weight / Max tongue load
2 / 4,500 lbs / 450 lbs
3 / 4,500 lbs / 450 lbs
4 / 4,500 lbs / 450 lbs
5 / 4,300 lbs / 350 lbs
6 / 4,100 lbs / 220 lbs
7 / 2,000 lbs / 100 lbs
8 / towing not recommended

Limits for other types of trailers are lower, with a maximum of 3500 lbs. All ratings assume each occupant at 150 lbs and allows 15 lbs of cargo per occupant.

For my vehicle, adding people/cargo does not affect the tow rating until you exceed 660 lbs of occupants and cargo. My boat and trailer weigh about 4100 lbs with a full tank of gas in the boat. I usually tow with 3 occupants. I am close to the limit, but still within the limit.

 

[bigdee]

Re: Towing capacity - opinions needed

With respect to the OP he is just asking if this is doable. I do not think that being 20 lbs over the RECOMMENDED limit is worth getting into a peeing contest. He found the boat that he likes so let him use his current Honda....it my not be the optimal towing package but it won't be the catastrophic disaster that some are suggesting. Maybe he will find out that his vehicle is capable for now until he can trade up to something more optimal.