Tracking guns

jcsercsa

Captain
Joined
May 21, 2007
Messages
3,401
Re: Tracking guns

Is the premise here that criminals buy guns from the gun store so they can be tracked?

I am sure most thugs get their guns from an alley somewhere.

How about instead of inventing new gun laws we just focus on enforcing the ones we have?

I agree , and we need more jails , I work i flint , mi, its one of the worst places on earth !!! second in crime rate !! I almost want to say let everone care a gun, if you havent comited a feloney or been in a mental wared, you can carrie a gun !!!!! almost cause there are still a lot of people out there that should be in a nut farm !!!! i know this state dont have the money to help them !!!!! I really do wish they would inforce the laws on the books now .... we had a guy the we caught stealing last week , had over a 100. worth of stuff, that was on sat, on tue, a half an hour after hr got out of lock up , one half of an HOUR, we caught him again !!!!! this time with 80 dallors of stuff !!! so what do we do ?? I know my store if this keeps up they we close her down !!!! John
 

jay_merrill

Vice Admiral
Joined
Dec 5, 2007
Messages
5,653
Re: Tracking guns

I'm not in the least bit guible and, while I am liberal, I wouldn't call myself extremely liberal. Guess what, if keeping a database of rifling marks would work, I would be all for it and, yes, it would be a way of enforcing current laws.

I don't own a gun and don't particularly like them. As far as I'm concerned, I was done with them when I got out of the military. I am also "middle of the road" in regard to gun ownership. I don't happen to believe that the 2nd Amendment is as plainly supportive of individual gun rights as the NRA and its supporters think it is. First of all, there is not one single word in it that says that there is a right to have a gun or a firearm. It says arms - nothing more. It also says not one word about unrestricted ownership of arms. In fact, the stated purpose of giving the right to bear arms is for a "well regulated militia.
So, what does all this mean? In my opinion, what it means more than anything, is that it will be argued back and forth, and ruled on back and forth, until the U.S. ceases to exist, if it ever does. The amendment is so vague that its pretty hard for anyone, on either side of the argument, to make a definitive statement about what the framers intended.

Ultimately, I think some sort of common sense needs to prevail. I think most people would agree that we have a right to defend ourselves as individuals. I think the same folks would also agree that the need to do that is becoming more and more of an issue in a world where school massacres and brazen robberies occur, often involving murder and/or wounding of the victims. I don't like guns, but trust me when I tell you that I could care less if one of you blows some clown that you discover in your home, to kingdom come. In fact, I once had a female friend who did exactly that. I am glad that her assailant ended up dead on her bedroom floor and she survived w/o being raped and murdered.

All of this said, what I hope the pro-gun folks will do is to work with the anti-gun people to find middle ground. Don't give the store away and don't put up with attempts to pass stupid legislation. On the other hand, if something makes sense, support it. At the same time, the "anti-folks" need to stop thinking that a complete ban on gun ownership is the answer - it isn't. As many have said, the crooks will get their hands on them anyway.

My guess is that the justices are going to rule on the DC case in some way that pleases the gun lobby. Whether they will completely overturn the DC handgun law remains to be seen. The current argument seems to be that the DC ban, and others like it, are akin to limitations on free speech. Frankly, I think that is a weak position because there is a heck of a lot more at stake in the case of gun ownership and use. And, although I'm sure an argument would be made that arms and free speech are thing specifically addressed in the amendments, if you remove an ability to restrict a portion of the use and ownership of arms, where do you stop? Do you then say that people can't be made to adhere to speed limits?

Frankly, I think the whole thing is a can of worms that would be better settled with some compromise. With a few reasonable adjustments, the current laws are probably adequate. After some minor tweaking, I would love to see all this energy being directed at going after the crooks and killers instead.
 

SgtMaj

Lieutenant Commander
Joined
Nov 19, 2007
Messages
1,997
Re: Tracking guns

Bond-o I do believe that. After all it doesn't affect ownership other than making guns slightly more expensive.

Maybe I am gullible, but I'm not an anti-gun liberal. Far from it. In fact I believe that just about anyone that can legally own a gun, should own one. I just had an idea that I thought might help track down a murderer or two.
 

JustJason

Vice Admiral
Joined
Aug 27, 2007
Messages
5,372
Re: Tracking guns

as far as gun laws go... i think there should be a universal standard. 1 liscense for all. The people of backwoods maine should be held to the same standards as downtown DC... and vice versa.
I've got my permit (in mass). I had to take classes to do so. I think that if you've never had a felony or sex crime or sort... aka a law abiding citizen, and you've never been to a hospital/doc's office for some kind of mental breakdown or mental history issues... and if you can pass the classes and give a reasonable reason as to obtaining a firearm... then there should be no reason to be declined. The classes are very specific as to when and where you can use a firearm for any reasons. And they were also very specific as to what would happen to you in the event that you used a firearm in a questionable situation.
I feel that if we had 1 rule, 1 way, for 1 country...then we can absolutely justify longer prison sentences. The only downside is that each infraction still has to be taken on a case by case basis... which is no different than it is now.
The only thing that i'm up in the air about is this whole thing about having to keep all firearms locked in your own home. And the issue is freakin kids. A locked firearm is about as good as no firearm at all when someone is invading your home. But when kids find them it's hard to always place blame on the adult. (kids are snoopy).
If i were prez... i'd pick a few towns, rural and urban. And i'd pick some kids to partake in an experiment. I'd pick them realatively young... say 6th through 8th grade. (they are already playing the video games at that age). I'd give them all physco exams to help rule out the nutty ones. I'd do a week or 2 long class on firearm education. From rules, to use, to marksmanship. Then i would take them out to a controlled area for live range fire exerices. Then i would make them shoot a small bird or squirrel with a small caliber bullet. I would make them pick up their prey, hold it, apologize for ending that animals life, and have the child bury it.
my only hope in the end, is that guns are not good or bad, but just the tool that the human uses for it's own purposes.... no different then the bow or the spear. I would hope the child feels remorsefull, and wants nothing to do with guns until they are fully developed adults.... and can make more of an informed decision.
Culture is hard to change, because culture does not happen overnight. I think that all and all.... the experiment would have interesting results in the long run.
I got my rifle permit at 15.... and my pistol (all carry) at 22. When i was 14 i took marksmanship in the boyscouts and it all started there. Even got a merit badge for it. I consider myself responsible. but i think mostly through ignorance and uneducativeness... guns get a bad rap.
 

SS MAYFLOAT

Admiral
Joined
May 17, 2001
Messages
6,372
Re: Tracking guns

Several years ago I lost one of my best fishing buds. (there is a post on this somewhere from way back) They found the gun and the kids that broke into his house and shot him in the chest with a 9mm. The ballistics did not match. The kids being smart enough used something to shove down in the barrel and alter the barrel enough that the ballistics would not match. The lowlife ^%*&? punk kid is walking free.

Lots of gun crimes are commited with guns that have been stolen out of peoples homes. Just maybe if the "Career Criminal" profession was NOT tolerated in any degree, there would be less crime.

Two types of people I can't stand,,,,,liars and thieves,,,,,,,they both go hand in hand and cannot be trusted at any time. (sometimes I feel the same way about some legal professionals as well):D
 
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