trim but no tilt? (pics added)

[trackerdawg]

Re: trim but no tilt?

Re: trim but no tilt?

going to post a few pics as soon as the ice melts...where is the oil / fluid resevoir?

 

[trackerdawg]

Re: trim but no tilt?

Re: trim but no tilt?

have also read about bypassing trim limits???

 

[RRitt]

Re: trim but no tilt?

Re: trim but no tilt?

ok, enough.

trim motors are on-off-reverse. That's it. When you push the button it either spins or it does not spin. The relays and switches do not know the difference between trim or tilt. If trim works then your electrical system is fine.

trim limit is usually done by mechanical means. Some boats have a sensor/switch that prevents the engine from over tilting and causing damage to either the engine hinges or the transom. These are often mis-named trim limit switches when they are usually tilt limit.

Typically trim limit is done by installing a 300psi bypass valve at 15 degrees of lift. This typically equals about 5HP of push against the prop. If you try to lift the prop past this point while giving the engine throttle then the bypass valve opens and the engine will not lift any higher. This is only needed with water cooled engines. If you have a closed loop cooling system or an air cooled engine then you can lift the engine completely out of the water while it is running.

Low fluid causes a system lo lift partially and then stop. As the piston retracts back into the ram housing it displaces fluid and refills the reservior. As the piston extends the fluid is used and it runs out at the same height next time. Air bubbles in system are of no consequence since the seals are airtight. As an airbubble passes through the pump gears the system may shudder. In 1989-1994 mercs and air bubble can get trapped in the gears and the system neither raises nor lowers. This only happens with brand new systems since the bubble will float to the surface on its own.

Bad pumps cause the system to drift down from any position. If your system will lift and hold tilt then your pump is probably good. Some mercs have the trim bypass valves built into the base of the pump. If your systems holds any angle tilt but won't hold trim then you may need a pump rebuild anyway.

Rams rarely have internal leaks. The diameter of a piston ring is usually 3/16" while other critical seals are 1/32". The seals on rams that need to be watched are the upper shaft wipers. Water will cling to the piston shaft as it retracts and try to enter your system. If the wiper is old and lets water get by then it will ruin your system from the inside out. Your upper scraper should be replaced as soon as it shows signs of cracking, tearing, or hardening. If water is allowed to get inside it can rust out your valves or split your rams during a hard freeze.

so whatever problem you have - the above should contain the answer.

 

[cr2k]

Re: trim but no tilt?

Re: trim but no tilt?

Like I said not ALL have tilt, some just have trim, then you manually tilt from there.

 

[susky river runner]

Re: trim but no tilt?

Re: trim but no tilt?

you said it had a trim tilt switch somewhere on here, (usually on the throttle handle) witch should make the motor raise and lower in and out of the water. If you can lower the motor but can't raise it, or vice versa it sounds to me like it is a relay problem, or there is no fluid in the resivoir sp? If it is a relay problem no worries, they are not that expensive. I had the same problem out on the water one day. I usually trim the motor up while the boat is just floating at the dock to keep the lower unit out of the water and I tried to tilt it down and it would not go. That was my problem. I had 2 diff motors that did that. hope this helps!

 

[trackerdawg]

Re: trim but no tilt?

Re: trim but no tilt?

 

[Yacht Dr.]

Re: trim but no tilt?

Re: trim but no tilt?

Tracker...

http://forums.iboats.com/search.php?searchid=88624

Pics or anything that would help ?

YD.

 

[trackerdawg]

Re: trim but no tilt?

Re: trim but no tilt?

that one pic is as far up as it will go, throttle controls, trim control ( I assume)

 

[trackerdawg]

Re: trim but no tilt?

Re: trim but no tilt?

also the knob just below the trim controls (blk box) talks about turning knob to the left to engage and all the way to the right to dis-engage and do not run the boat without being engaged. That is the first time I noticed it and have been running the boat with the knob turned to the right for dis-engaged?????

 

[Moody Blue]

Re: trim but no tilt?

Re: trim but no tilt?

Trackerdawg, see my #16 post earlier. Your photo's confirm my suspicions that you have a "type 1" trim system. The two button control will not permit the TILT operation IF the original limit switch and wiring is still connected. As I mentioned earlier, the limit switch can be bypassed allowing full range of motion, BUT you run the risk of raising the motor out of the water while underway.

The knob you describe is the reverse lock control. Turning the knob CCW engages the reverse lock, preventing the motor from kicking up when in reverse. If the knob is fully CW, the motor could kick up out of the water when put in reverse.

 

[trackerdawg]

Re: trim but no tilt?

Re: trim but no tilt?

assuming I know the risk and am carefull not to trim up when the motor is running, how do I bypass the trim limit?
Thanks for the help

 

[Moody Blue]

Re: trim but no tilt?

Re: trim but no tilt?

I've attached a wiring diagram of the trim system. Yours may have two relays or one, but it doesn't matter.

There will be a 2 wire cable (looks like a black extension cord) running from the motor (limit switch location) with the hydraulic lines to the pump. You need to disconnect the two in-line connectors, then connect the purple wire directly to the two blue wires. This takes the limit switch out of the circuit and allows full range of operation.

As you can see, this type of system used a 3-button control. When the middle AND top button are pressed at the same time, the limit switch is bypassed, allowing the motor to tilt fully up. The normal operation uses the middle button to trim up and the bottom button to trim down.

 

[trackerdawg]

Re: trim but no tilt?

Re: trim but no tilt?

you tha man. thanks! I will try it out

 

[Fed]

Re: trim but no tilt?

Re: trim but no tilt?

Looks like the rams are all the way up to me, what you see is what you get, I don't think it will go any higher no matter what you bridge out. I'm betting you don't even have a trim limit switch on that.
Looks like the transom angle is pretty big too so that could be making motor look low compared to others you have seen.

 

[Moody Blue]

Re: trim but no tilt?

Re: trim but no tilt?

Good eye Fed.

After zooming in on the photos, I can see that the trim cyl's are fully retracted. Not going to get that motor any higher.

One option may be to use a transom wedge. They are prefabricated aluminum 5* wedges that bolt under the motor transom mount. They are normally used to gain more negative trim (further down) but some are reversible, giving the motor more positive trim (further up). Not sure if they are compatible with that version of trim system you have.

http://www.marineengine.com/products/accessory.php?in=1940420

 

[Stachi]

Re: trim but no tilt?

Re: trim but no tilt?

ok, enough.

trim motors are on-off-reverse. That's it. When you push the button it either spins or it does not spin. The relays and switches do not know the difference between trim or tilt. If trim works then your electrical system is fine.

trim limit is usually done by mechanical means. Some boats have a sensor/switch that prevents the engine from over tilting and causing damage to either the engine hinges or the transom. These are often mis-named trim limit switches when they are usually tilt limit.

Typically trim limit is done by installing a 300psi bypass valve at 15 degrees of lift. This typically equals about 5HP of push against the prop. If you try to lift the prop past this point while giving the engine throttle then the bypass valve opens and the engine will not lift any higher. This is only needed with water cooled engines. If you have a closed loop cooling system or an air cooled engine then you can lift the engine completely out of the water while it is running.

Low fluid causes a system lo lift partially and then stop. As the piston retracts back into the ram housing it displaces fluid and refills the reservior. As the piston extends the fluid is used and it runs out at the same height next time. Air bubbles in system are of no consequence since the seals are airtight. As an airbubble passes through the pump gears the system may shudder. In 1989-1994 mercs and air bubble can get trapped in the gears and the system neither raises nor lowers. This only happens with brand new systems since the bubble will float to the surface on its own.

Bad pumps cause the system to drift down from any position. If your system will lift and hold tilt then your pump is probably good. Some mercs have the trim bypass valves built into the base of the pump. If your systems holds any angle tilt but won't hold trim then you may need a pump rebuild anyway.

Rams rarely have internal leaks. The diameter of a piston ring is usually 3/16" while other critical seals are 1/32". The seals on rams that need to be watched are the upper shaft wipers. Water will cling to the piston shaft as it retracts and try to enter your system. If the wiper is old and lets water get by then it will ruin your system from the inside out. Your upper scraper should be replaced as soon as it shows signs of cracking, tearing, or hardening. If water is allowed to get inside it can rust out your valves or split your rams during a hard freeze.

so whatever problem you have - the above should contain the answer.

I agree with your statement...my outboard (125 Force outboard) , has two rams...one is trim , the other for tilt. When the trim ram maxes out , the tilt ram takes over. Thats why I asked if he had enough fluid in his reservoir. I should have asked if he had any signs of a leak anywhere in the system....there would have to be a reason why the fluid level would be low...