Trim Question

[SweeperForce]

On this forum I was told that you need to be trimmed up to top off the hydraulic reservoir. However, Clymer says "Trim the outboard to the full down position." Also, it mentions using 10W-40 engine oil? Is that right?

Thanks,
Tom

 

[Frank Acampora]

Re: Trim Question

I always top mine off with the trim in full down position. The manuals claim that there can be pressure inside the reservoir if filled in the up or down position--I forget which. In reality, because it is a closed system and oil returns to the reservoir from the side of the cylinders decreasing in volume while it leaves the reservoir to fill the increasing volume of the other side of the cylinders, it makes little difference on the older systems. I'm not sure about the newer ones.

HOWEVER: After topping, you must still cycle the trim/tilt to its extremes a couple of times to bleed out any air.

Chrysler/Force T/T systems at various times used three different oils: Straight motor oil, transmission fluid, and hydraulic oil. Unless you are draining the system completely, add like kind of oil. Motor oil is light tan, transmission fluid is pink and hydraulic fluid is clear unless contaminated. Motor oil should NOT be a multi viscosity oil like 10-30 (unless you intend using the boat in freezing weather). It should be a straight weight -- I think 30 is acceptable.

Hydraulic oil gives the longest life to rubber O Rings with trans fluid next and motor oil giving the least.

I'm sure that RRitt will jump in and clarify further.

 

[foodfisher]

Re: Trim Question

Might I add non detergent oil to the advice.

 

[roscoe]

Re: Trim Question

Follow the Clymer manual for your specific make, model, and year.

Not all systems are the same.

 

[SweeperForce]

Re: Trim Question

Thanks all for the great info.

 

[jerryjerry05]

Re: Trim Question

Don't follow anything the Clymer manual says.I think they are junk,way too generic.Get the factory manual!!My opinion!!!

From the factory manual.Full down,open the resivoir and add 40 wt.10/30 or 10/40 or any weight motor oil is better than power steering fluid.
Replace the cap and cycle the unit 2-4 times.Remove the cap and release any pressure and add more oil.If it takes more oil then re-cycle.
If it leaks down then I'll post the test procedures for the T/T.J

 

[RRitt]

Re: Trim Question

On this forum I was told that you need to be trimmed up to top off the hydraulic reservoir. However, Clymer says "Trim the outboard to the full down position." Also, it mentions using 10W-40 engine oil? Is that right?

Thanks,
Tom

the correct answer varies dramatically from year to year and model to model.

1994 and earlier may be trimmed to any position when filling reservoir. When filling resrvoir in up position then fill to just under filleplug hole. When filling reservoir in down position then underfill by about 2oz.

1995 and later should only be filled in fully raised position.

1987 and earlier work best with iso32 hydraulic oil such as you find in million dollar industrial machines. You may also use NON-DETERGENT motor oil.

1988-1992 with pretolite pumps should use non detergent motor oil. If you use thinner hydraulic oil the engine may buck when lowering off trailer.

1992-2008 with oildyne or eaton pumps should use either iso32 or ATF depending upon what came from factory. ATF is red. ISO is honey colored. Use only fluid specified in manual. Some types of ATF will harm your trim system.

if you do a clean rebuild or full flush then industrial grade iso32 is best for every system except 1988-1992 force. It is expensive stuff though. It can be as high as $20 a gallon. It is engineered to resist foaming, absorb water away from steel, resist shearing in pump gears, and extend the life of rubber seals.

 

[roscoe]

Re: Trim Question

Don't follow anything the Clymer manual says.I think they are junk,way too generic.Get the factory manual!!My opinion!!!

From the factory manual.Full down,open the resivoir and add 40 wt.10/30 or 10/40 or any weight motor oil is better than power steering fluid.
Replace the cap and cycle the unit 2-4 times.Remove the cap and release any pressure and add more oil.If it takes more oil then re-cycle.
If it leaks down then I'll post the test procedures for the T/T.J

So uhh jerry, just what motor are you guessing he has? What year, brand, model ?

 

[roscoe]

Re: Trim Question

1995 and later should only be filled in fully raised position.

RRitt, with much respect for your extensive knowledge and experience, I beg to differ on this one.

FYI, so you can add it to your library.
I have 1995 70 Force.
The owners manual,
the factory service manual (1991-1995 70 hp) ,
and the Clymer manual state to fully lower the engine.
Same for the 1997 75 hp I used to have.

Cheers.

 

[jerryjerry05]

Re: Trim Question

Believe it's an 89/150 Force.We have been working on it for a while!!

 

[RRitt]

Re: Trim Question

RRitt, with much respect for your extensive knowledge and experience, I beg to differ on this one.

FYI, so you can add it to your library.
I have 1995 70 Force.
The owners manual,
the factory service manual (1991-1995 70 hp) ,
and the Clymer manual state to fully lower the engine.
Same for the 1997 75 hp I used to have.

Cheers.

the 70 and 75HP from 1990-2000 are special case systems. there is none other like them on any other mercury mariner force johnson or evinrude.

 

[bungee49]

Re: Trim Question

RRitt,i have a 1987 85 hp force that had a bad 3 wire tnt on it,so thats what i replaced it with,would it be better to convert it to a relay system like the 2 wire system? and just incase,i did order the wiring mharnesses for a 2 wire system,im just not sure what to do or what parts i need,i see the 2 relays,5 pin it looks like,any help you can give me i would greatly appreciate ,one more thing,if i go to the 2 wire relay system,do i still connect the ground wire from my 3 wire system to the battery,new to boat wiring,just dont want to burn up,you know?thx

 

[RRitt]

Re: Trim Question

the 2w relay wiring harness will not work without modifications. If you use it out of the box it will short your motor. If you search there should be some archive posts. I think frank did one about how to wire relays into a 3w engine.

 

[Frank Acampora]

Re: Trim Question



Here are a couple of photos showing how to convert a three wire motor to two wire with relay operation.

The only advantage is that you are now not running full motor amperage up to the dash and through the switch.

First photo shows the motor cable running up through the engine air intake. You could drill a small hole in the lower cowl, but the intake holes are already there so why make more work?

Second photo shows the black ground wire (with some white paint on it from overspray), the signal wire, and the motor power wires. The harness is stock, but you will need to attach crimp-on bullet connectors to the motor power wires and the signal wire you run. They appear as four blue pieces in the photo. The ground runs around the front of the engine then up to the block ground along with the battery and relay signal grounds.

In the third photo you can see the power leads to the relays connected to the battery side of the starter solenoid. I did not use a circuit breaker on this system but one could easily be added.

Fourth photo shows the power grounds from the relays siamesed and not connected. Look closely and you can see the two siamesed signal grounds running in the background up to the engine block ground.

last photo shows ground covered in shrink wrap to insulate. These wires CAN be cut off at the relay BUT---I may in the future want to use a 2 wire motor so I decided to save them.

Note that on the mount I show three relays. One is a spare, just in case. I have grounded the motor to the engine block. Battery ground is acceptable too but the block ground is easier. Note that the relay POWER ground is NOT connected. I have it covered with some shrink wrap. However, you may be able to see that the relay signal ground is grounded to the block. I ran a signal cable from the switch to the engine. It is the grey wire.

This set-up is on the engine in the avatar.

 

[RRitt]

Re: Trim Question

yikes! Frank! Buddy! That just looks way too hard.

All you have to do is snip the middle black wire (post 87b) so that the relay does not switch ground to the motor. Make sure to leave the coil ground (post 86) alone or else the relay will stop working. The 3w motor has a permanent ground that can just be bolted to the engine block. Then you connect blue & green just like a 2w. If the switch runs backwards then just flip blue & green. We should be talking a 20-30 minute job with less than $30 in parts.

 

[Frank Acampora]

Re: Trim Question

Nope--not difficult at all. As you said: Connect green to green and blue to blue. Motor ground to engine block. The only thing extra I did was to keep the relay grounds rather than clip them in case I want to use a 2 wire motor in the future, and mount an extra relay in case one went bad on the water. Again as you said it took about 1/2 hour-= including mounting the T/T unit onto the engine.

Relays were junkyard salvaged--cost $0 and bullet connectors were about $1.50 I had a two wire T/T elecrical harness salvaged off a junker engine. So: My cost was way less than $30.