(update#2 Finished) Spark/throttle advance froze on '57 35hp E'rude

[wildmaninal]

After piddling with this motor off and on I finally got to the point where I decided to take the old motor out set it in a barrel and see if I could get it started but little did I realize that the spark advance under the flywheel isn't working. Obviously it froze from sitting for so many years. I had the motor to fire a few times and that was about it. It was setup for a tiller handle but the handle is missing, which doesn't hurt my feelings because I'm going to swap it over to control box some day. I tapped the spark advance around with the end of a ratchet and got it to move nearly all the way back and forth. I was thinking that it might be froze up in both the tiller assembly and under the flywheel, I'm not for sure though.

Is there any tips that you can share on this? I'm learning as I go, had to swap the head out on the motor due to the spark plug hole being messed up done tried a heal a coil that didn't work.
What should I lube it with?
Is there a possibility that I might half to take the whole system apart?

 

[tmcalavy]

Re: Spark/throttle advance froze on '57 35hp E'rude

Re: Spark/throttle advance froze on '57 35hp E'rude

If the tiller handle is gone, how are you advancing the throttle plate? Is the geared rod the tiller connects to still there? Regardless, you need to put some penetrating oil at the back of the throttle assembly...there's a gear there that meshes with another gear on a vertical rod. The turn of the vertical rod moves the throttle plate. Also spray some penetrating oil around the throttle plate, where it snugs up under the flywheel. Let the oil work for a while and then work the plate back and fort gently until it loosens up. Sounds like years of dirt and crud have done a job on it, but it can probably be undone if your patient and use plenty of penetrating oil.

 

[wildmaninal]

Re: Spark/throttle advance froze on '57 35hp E'rude

Re: Spark/throttle advance froze on '57 35hp E'rude

Thanks for chiming in Tmcalavy, the tiller handle is missing from the joint where you would normaly raise the handle and get it out of the way when not in use. I was using a pare of pliers at that gear to see what it would do, and I was also trying to move the plate under the flywheel by hand. Well I was thinking that the plate normally could be moved by hand when working properly at least the little 5.5hp does if I remember right. Then I decided to bump it with the ratchet to see what would happen and sure enough the plate under the flywheel moved but not very easily.

Where you mentioned that the gears mesh together, I am thinking that could be froze up also. I'll throw some lube on it, I was thinking that it might be more technical/hands on but maybe I'll get away with just lubing it. To bad I didn't realize that it wasn't working a few weeks ago.

Thanks

 

[tmcalavy]

Re: Spark/throttle advance froze on '57 35hp E'rude

Re: Spark/throttle advance froze on '57 35hp E'rude

Years of dust and gunk will do that to a linkage, sometimes I clean them with a small brush and carb cleaner then do the penetrating oil and clean them again. Unless something is really buggered, it'll probably loosen up...just takes some time. You can probably find a tiller handle or the shorter throttle control on Ebay or the free classifieds at www.aomci.org . I have one in the shop that I took off a 57 Big Twin 35 hp and replaced with the shorter throttle control. Don't know what I'm going to do with it, but I never throw anything away...which has save my cajones more than once. The trick to keeping those linkages working smoothly is to keep them cleaned and lightly lubed, especially the gear at the rear of the linkage that meshes with the gear on the upright rod/bar. I've got a 56 lark kind of apart in the shop that may be the next project...right now it's a parts horse for the 57 Big Twin.

 

[wildmaninal]

Re: Spark/throttle advance froze on '57 35hp E'rude

Re: Spark/throttle advance froze on '57 35hp E'rude

I found out that the tiller assembly isn't froze after all. I just started spraying it down with liquid wrench, I'll see what that does and if that doesn't work out I'll change brands on the lube maybe try that orange and white can.

I have no idea what was scraping the top of the coils, don't know if it was a bolt or the bolts that hold the pull start "gear" on or what but I got to take care of that also.

One question, a little off the main subject.....Would this motor back fire is the compression relief rod isn't hooked to the flywheel or pulled back, I am assuming that is why I was getting a back fire every once and a while yesterday when trying to start it.

 

[tmcalavy]

Re: Spark/throttle advance froze on '57 35hp E'rude

Re: Spark/throttle advance froze on '57 35hp E'rude

Sounds like it might be wise to pull the flywheel so you can inspect the coils/points/condensors/wiring and put some lube on the throttle plate bushing. Does it backfire through the exhaust or just kinda sneeze through the carb? It may be out of time, as evidenced by a sheared flywheel key, or it could just be out of synch. The rear butterfly on the carb has to open in synch with the throttle advance. Best way to check this is to put the throttle advance plate in the Start position and look in the carb with a flashlight while you advance the throttle. At Start, the butterfly should just be barely open and then gradually open all the way as the throttle is advanced. Should be in Forward gear when you check this or the Neutral limiter will throw you off. Something to check after you get the throttle plate loosened up and rotating freely/easily. If you're going to make a runner out of this motor you need to pull the flywheel and check everything under there anyway. The compression release shouldn't cause a backfire, it just releases a slight amount of compression to make pull starting easier on your arm/shoulder. If it has an electric starter, get that working or replace it and save some wear and tear on the arm/shoulder...surgery on those digits is a mutha, went through that a year ago.

 

[wildmaninal]

Re: Spark/throttle advance froze on '57 35hp E'rude

Re: Spark/throttle advance froze on '57 35hp E'rude

The flywheel has been off sense this morning and I have been spraying it everytime I pass by it, the barrel is sitting right near our main entrance so I pass by it allot . Flywheel key seems to be good. One coil was still good on this motor when I got it, I took the cracked coil, old condenser, and replaced it with a coil and condenser off of what might turn out to be a parts motor. I haven't set the point, I haven't even touched them, I might need to check the settings on them also.

The backfire is coming from the exaust for sure. When I had my father holding the compression relief lever open I don't recall it backfiring that is why I was thinking that it may of caused the backfire. The timing might be off, but I know the throttle plate was closed when I tried to start it but I did push a flat head screw driver in there at one point to open it that still did not help.

If and when I get this throttle plate freed up I'll try and start her again and see if that backfire still happens. If I get this thing running I would like to put it on the back of my 57 model whitehouse project boat.

This is only a standard edition Evinrude so it didn't have the electric start although I have the Johnson version (same year and HP) with the electric start but I don't know if it is a 6volt starter or a 12 volt starter but I know it does seem to work. I bought these motors from my uncle who was going to take the starter off of the Johnson and put it on the Evinrude sense it did run back years ago but he never swapped it over. I was turning the motor over with a powerful drill, I attempted to pull start that motor and I said to myself there is no way that's why I swapped to the drill.

 

[tmcalavy]

Re: Spark/throttle advance froze on '57 35hp E'rude

Re: Spark/throttle advance froze on '57 35hp E'rude

The Johnson starter should fit the Evinrude if it was milled for the starter bracket like the electric start ones of the day. The Johnson starter is a little longer but it will bolt right up. I had to put a Johnson starter on my 57 Big Twin, luckily had one in the shop that worked.

 

[wildmaninal]

Re: Spark/throttle advance froze on '57 35hp E'rude

Re: Spark/throttle advance froze on '57 35hp E'rude

The only thing is the Johnson also has good compression which I new from the day I bought these motors. Both of these motors have 100 and 110 which is a little off but should still be good enough.

As I may have mentioned though, I took the head off of the Johson to put on the Evinrude. I could just go ahead and take the starter off of the Johnson and when I get ready to restore it just look out for another starter and flywheel for it. The Johson needs some exstensive cleaning in the lower unit and other parts of the motor, it has been parked longer then the Evinrude.

 

[tmcalavy]

Re: Spark/throttle advance froze on '57 35hp E'rude

Re: Spark/throttle advance froze on '57 35hp E'rude

The only bad thing about that starter arrangement is the top mounting bolt that snugs in back behind the top of the carb. Kinda touchy pulling/replacing with the flywheel in place, but it can be done with a long screwdriver. It's a lot easier if the flywheel is off.

 

[wildmaninal]

Re: (update) Spark/throttle advance froze on '57 35hp E'rude

Re: (update) Spark/throttle advance froze on '57 35hp E'rude

Well I got the plate freed up and I actually had the old motor running for a little bit with my father assiting me. It did still backfire when trying to start it but it actually ran decent.

I still have a few issues though....I was only able to run it with the fuel line stuck in the carb throat, and it wasn't pumping water to my knowledge so I might half to take the foot back off or build another flushing device like I did for my 5.5hp. Which the 5.5hp water system wasn't clogged but I built the flushing device to run the motor and help flush any debree out.

The impeller was like new in the 35hp and didn't have any signs of weather rot. I can't remember if I blew through the water pipe on the 35hp or not when I had it apart.

 

[wildmaninal]

Re: (update#2 Finished) Spark/throttle advance froze on '57 35hp E'rude

Motor is running well with the gas line hooked to the filter (everything is hooked like it should be). I built a flushing adapter for this motor today and forced a coat hanger up the exaust holes, hooked the flushing device to it and water starting coming out. The water is coming out of the exaust port when running the motor in the barrel also. We had it running for a few minutes today. We turned the motor off a few times and I pull started it with only 2 to three pulls it fired up.

To bad I don't have any controls for it I would take her out for a spin on the lake.

Done playing mechanic on this motor for the time being. I am tempted to start sanding it and prepping it for paint.

 

[jbjennings]

Re: (update#2 Finished) Spark/throttle advance froze on '57 35hp E'rude

Whatever you do, Manimal, don't get ready to perty it up until you've ran it several times and feel TOTALLY confident that you have it like you want it. I can tell you from experience that it is very disheartening to get it all shiny and have to take it apart. I don't care how careful you are, it will get smudged or scratched/flaked if you do. Be patient and wait until you get it all worked out.
DON't DO IT WILDMANINAL!!!!!!
JBJ

 

[wildmaninal]

Re: (update#2 Finished) Spark/throttle advance froze on '57 35hp E'rude

Alright, I'll hold off on prepping it for paint :redface: you talked me out of it. By chance Jbj do you have the part number for the decal set for this motor? I have a decal set that I would like to see if it would be close enough to the original, I believe it is an Evinrude decal set. The part number for the decal set I have is 382852, it came in these boxes of parts that I bought.

This is one of the motors I bought from my uncle, I bought both for $50 just to remind ya of what I'm working on.

 

[jbjennings]

Re: (update#2 Finished) Spark/throttle advance froze on '57 35hp E'rude

Sorry Manimal,
Don't know the part number. Did I understand correctly--you have NOS decals for it???? WOW! Go to nymarine.com and look at his decals and see if they match, if not you can buy them from him.
Later,
JBJ

 

[wildmaninal]

Re: (update#2 Finished) Spark/throttle advance froze on '57 35hp E'rude

Sorry Manimal,
Don't know the part number. Did I understand correctly--you have NOS decals for it???? WOW! Go to nymarine.com and look at his decals and see if they match, if not you can buy them from him.
Later,
JBJ

Yep, I found it while doing inventory on these parts. I'm not for sure that they will work for this motor but I'll do my best to find out. I'll half to find the decal set again and take it out and have a closer look.

Thanks

Wildmaninal.

 

[jbjennings]

Re: (update#2 Finished) Spark/throttle advance froze on '57 35hp E'rude

Just a little interesting tidbit--
I like to look at the message board at another website. they have some stinkin' vintage outboard GENIUSes on there and I love to read their posts. There's even one guy on there named Garry that is in F-R's league as far as knowledge and helpfulness goes (a little hero-worship never hurt anybody!!). I learn a lot just reading their posts whether it's on my motors or not. They know all kinds of cool tricks to fix 'em too.
Now finally to my point---there's a thread about NOS decals and mixing up the "glue" for 'em that you might be interested in a few weeks ago. In that thread, Peter McDowell (the guy that owns nymarine and sells his own decals) tells the guy how to get his NOS decals stuck to his motor. I thought that was pretty good of him to do for the guy! You might find that thread interesting to know if you try to stick your vintage decals.
Later,
JBJ