Used cruiser advice appreciated

[JoLin]

Re: Used cruiser advice appreciated

I was told that it was only the starboard (IIRC) manifold (single engine) that needed to be replaced. I guess the other was replaced a few years ago and now this one is going.

Thanks for the tip on the Larson, but I don't think I want to go that old. I haven't seen a newer Larson in person yet. Do you think they're bad boats or just that the boat is more cramped now? How about the Chaparral Signatures and Chris Craft Crown?

Thanks

Careful on that single manifold- if there's no proof (as in receipts) that the other was replaced, then take the position that it wasn't. It is NOT typical practice to replace one manifold at a time, and it isn't typical practice to replace the manifolds alone. The risers are usually done at the same time. In a fresh water boat, both can be fine for 15 years or even longer, but they still have a finite lifespan.

Nothing at all wrong with Larson, they just went the way of all the other manufacturers when they ended the Hampton line in favor of the new Cabrio line. Less usable space. The sleeker/swoopier the look, the more you give up, and that's true of every express cruiser you're looking at. If I were shopping for a new Four Winns Vista, I'd have to go to 30' or more to get the same cabin room I have in mine.

 

[JoLin]

Re: Questions on adding things

Re: Questions on adding things

Questions on adding things:
A generator - first, does it have to be a marine generator? Can you mount a portable generator in the engine compartment with venting?

A windlass - how easily can you run the wires in a boat? Do you have to remove the headliner or something?

Thanks

NO! NO! and NO! on the non-marine genny in the engine room. Did I say NO? - I meant NO! You can't make it safe, so NO! Aside from the exhaust/CO issue, it won't be 'inherently safe for marine use', as in spark-protected. It's the same issue you'd have putting a Home Depot water heater down there.

Many boats in the size range you're shopping already have windlass wiring run up there. You need to check. My boat already had a windlass installed from the factory.

 

[Quit It]

Re: Questions on adding things

Re: Questions on adding things

More space would be nicer, but it seems like I'm going to get a 8'6" boat. Oh well, maybe my next boat will be stored at a marina.

NO! NO! and NO! on the non-marine genny in the engine room. Did I say NO? - I meant NO! You can't make it safe, so NO!

Got it the first time

A few boats I'm looking at don't have trailers So now I'm looking for a trailer - damn they're expensive. I did find a company that's selling 10-20K+ boat trailers - brakes are optional :facepalm:

 

[Quit It]

Re: Questions on adding things

Re: Questions on adding things

Many boats in the size range you're shopping already have windlass wiring run up there. You need to check. My boat already had a windlass installed from the factory.

This is good news. Which brands? I was reading this thread about windlass problems (http://www.smwebhead.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?p=93519#p93519) and it seems the OP (or someone) might have run the wrong wire in his 2007 FW 358 Vista

 

[CaptainKickback]

Re: Questions on adding things

Re: Questions on adding things

Wow, a lot of great information given so far. Most people would be on information overload by now, but you seem to be soaking it up pretty good.

The main thing I see here is that you want the boat to do everything, and boats don't do that well. I would decide what's important to you and get a boat that does those things most important.

For example, for how you want to use it, you need a 27-28 foot boat with at least 9' beam, probably 10'. You want a generator. Most 24-25' boats have no room for one and very few 26 footers do either. You need a head with a holding tank as you have too many people for a porta-pottie.

But, you want to trailer the boat. You need a huge vehicle to safely tow a 27-28' boat.

You want to pull tubers, but you rarely see that size boat pulling them since fuel costs so much.

You live in Florida, so consider whether any of your party cannot sleep without A/C. I can not, and even overnighting in 50 degrees in the Florida winter, two of us warm the cabin beyond my sleepability.

One or two engines - You live in Florida. Does that mean you will be offshore? Then two engines is desirable. Plus, it gives you a ton more control over the boat.

You haven't mentioned your budget, either for the boat or for monthly operation. But can you consider renting a dock and keeping it on the water ($10/foot here in South Florida)? Consider the trade off between that monthly cost and the cost of a huge tow vehicle and a trailer.

One thing I'll bet. Whatever you get now, you will replace in two years or so because you will figure out what features are important and then you will get exactly the boat you want.

Hope this helps.

Sea ya...

 

[Quit It]

Re: Questions on adding things

Re: Questions on adding things

Thanks, and thanks for the advice. I'm really hoping you'll loose that bet, which is why I'm trying to do it right the first time. I'm budgetting $10-15 for this which makes it tougher.

You're right, there's not one "right" boat in my price range. I would love to go bigger and spend more, but there's all the obvious drawbacks. So, I'm sticking with the smaller cruisers. Dry storage at a marina (no trailer) is $300+. Wet storage is more and storing it myself is $60/month. I've read the drawbacks on self-storage but the marina's only stack and remove the boats for the $300 so all the cleanup/cleanout would be more $$ or DIY

I've seen a few big boats towing a tube, but you're right, most are just cruising. I figure with young kids I can do both since I'd keep the speeds down then. Also, when I mentioned the 8 people (or whatever I said) it was max capacity - I don't have 8 kids and don't plan on taking that many folks out most days.

I'm going to have AC, probably a portable unit and a portable generator. I'm ok with a little heat. Holding tank size on these seems to be adequate. But, really, who cares what the capacity is - when it's full I'll just motor 3 miles out to sea to save the $5 the marina's charge - kidding.

Twins might be nicer, but, as you know, they have added expenses too. And, I haven't found a lot of twins that I can afford in my price range and year range.

This is so weird, I know tons about cars/trucks and know what to buy because I've been studying them for decades. Too bad I didn't study boats too but fortunately you folks are willing to share your knowledge

Thanks

 

[JoLin]

Re: Questions on adding things

Re: Questions on adding things

I'm going to have AC, probably a portable unit and a portable generator.

It's doable, but it will be a PITA. The Honda 2000 EU has become somewhat popular with boaters. You need to secure a portable to the swim platform. Putting it anywhere inside the confines of the boat is a no-no due to the CO problem. Make sure you put some CO detectors on the boat. Also, never, ever run a genny while you're sleeping. You might not wake up again. It isn't an empty warning. Boat and RV owners who run gennys overnight show up in the news on a pretty regular basis. That caution applies whether the genny is a portable or permanent marine-rated installation.

A portable marine A/C unit like a Cruisair sits on the foredeck and blows through the forward hatch. They're really meant to use at the dock- heavy and tricky to maneuver around when the boat's rockin'. I have a friend (30' Searay) who put one of those rollaround 'R2D2' home units in his boat. That eliminates the need to jockey it around, but it takes up a lot of room inside the cabin. He also had to route the exhaust to the outside, and the condensation 'drip' overboard or to the bilge.

I know sometimes it seems like people (me especially, I suppose) are throwing up roadblocks in front of you, but it's primarily to keep all of you alive. I had all kinds of 'great ideas' until I learned by experience and education, just how different boat life is from anything I knew as a landlubber.

 

[JoLin]

Re: Questions on adding things

Re: Questions on adding things

This is so weird, I know tons about cars/trucks and know what to buy because I've been studying them for decades. Too bad I didn't study boats too but fortunately you folks are willing to share your knowledge

Don't feel bad- up until 5 years ago, when I started boating, I also thought I was a reasonably competent human being. Owning a boat for the first few years teaches you humility.

 

[Quit It]

Re: Questions on adding things

Re: Questions on adding things

Ok, how about this? A 1996 Chaparral Signature 29 with twins? Same sort of deal, friend of a friend, of a friend, of a friend twice removed who wants to sell. It should be within my budget! Seems like a great deal to me so I guess I should schedule a mechanical inspection and a survey. Anyone have any thoughts? Please

Thanks

 

[JoLin]

Re: Questions on adding things

Re: Questions on adding things

Chaparral makes a nice boat, no question. I'd look it over really well and take it for a ride. If it seems like 'the one', then I'd negotiate price and schedule the inspections. Don't pay any money out of pocket until you're certain this is the boat you want to live with.

Good luck!

 

[25thmustang]

Re: Questions on adding things

Re: Questions on adding things

Earlier I saw you budgeted 10-15, I assume 10,000-15,000? That boat seems cheap at that price. Looks nice from photos (style, layout that is) but I question the round dinette in front of the berth. Seems like it would make getting into the vberth a real chore. I'd also imagine that's beyond your trucks towing limit.

 

[haulnazz15]

Re: Questions on adding things

Re: Questions on adding things

Ok, how about this? A 1996 Chaparral Signature 29 with twins? Same sort of deal, friend of a friend, of a friend, of a friend twice removed who wants to sell. It should be within my budget! Seems like a great deal to me so I guess I should schedule a mechanical inspection and a survey. Anyone have any thoughts? Please

Thanks

Might be a great boat if you like the layout and it's in good condition. However, you aren't towing that thing with anything short of a 3/4 ton truck. Your tranny wouldn't last an hour with that load, much less any of the safety concerns.

 

[Quit It]

Re: Questions on adding things

Re: Questions on adding things

Is there a breakdown or ranking of cruiser brands? I don't want to buy the lowest rung I guess it would have to include pricing because some hold their value too well. Hopefully Chaparral is up there on the list.

It's a "great deal", or so it seems. I haven't had any inspections done yet. The table that blocks the front berth isn't ideal, but I'd put the kids up there I'm not sure I want twins because of the added maintanence costs, but I suppose I could do some stuff myself - I've rebuilt car engines so I'm technically able but lazy

Thanks

 

[haulnazz15]

Re: Questions on adding things

Re: Questions on adding things

On most boats over 10 years old, the ranking of manufacturers is debatable at best. The rankings are usually based more off of luxury items than actual "quality" per say. The maintenance and care of the boat is more important than the brand name in most cases. Chaparral, in general, is a mid-tier boat. It's no Formula or Cobalt, but it's not an entry-level Bayliner or Larson either. The layout and boat condition are the items of biggest concern. As far as the twins, I doubt you'll see a significant difference in maintenance costs unless you have to start buying exhaust manifolds, etc. The fuel cost should be negligible between that and a single big block, and the tracking/docking will be worlds better.

 

[CaptainKickback]

Re: Questions on adding things

Re: Questions on adding things

If you are looking at this Chaparal, checkout a Cruisers Yachts 2870, around a 1998. Great layout. Great boat.

Also, if using in salt water, make a plan to flush the engines after each use. If you decide to rent a dock ($10/ft behind someones house here in Siuth Florida - marinas are higher), put flush kits on the engines. Flushing will make your manifolds, risers, water pumps, etc.

Sea ya...

 

[Quit It]

Re: Questions on adding things

Re: Questions on adding things

Four manifolds at once would/will ( ) be fun :facepalm: The storage yard has water so whatever I end up buying I'll be hosing down and clearing out after every use.

Thanks for the tip on Cruisers Yachts. I'm so tired of looking at boats though I have a few Rinkers and some others I'm also interested in. Hopefully I can decide and buy one soon.

Thanks

 

[Quit It]

Re: Used cruiser advice appreciated

Glad the forum is finally back up.

I put down a deposit on a non-local 26' Monterey Just need to get the inspections done and I'll be a happy camper. The Chaparral seller stopped responding when I asked about inspections

Do buyers really benefit from surveys? Has anyone had the surveyor screw up and miss something they should have caught and been compensated by the surveyor?

Just a note on the surveyor, I went with Scott Grabner of Power Sail and Marine - seemed ok in person, but I found him to be a jerk in emails. I also didn't get the Boat History Report - it's only free on 36' or longer boats, but the flashing "NEW" sign doesn't mention it.

 

[JoLin]

Re: Used cruiser advice appreciated

Do buyers really benefit from surveys? Has anyone had the surveyor screw up and miss something they should have caught and been compensated by the surveyor?

I've had 2 and felt they were worth the money. I haven't personally had one screw up, but I'm sure it happens- they're human.

You also need to define 'screw up'. The surveyor I used was dead-on accurate concerning hull, transom, stringer condition (that's the stuff I'm most concerned about anyway). As for other components and subsystems (plumbing, electrical, waste) if something isn't operating correctly it'll be in the report and factored into the appraised value of the boat. That's NOT to say that an item that's working today, won't break tomorrow. You're paying for an inspection, not a psychic reading.

This is my second season withg the boat in my sig, and I've been chasing 'breakages' all summer- fuel pump, raw water pump, exhaust u-tube leaking into the bilge (condition can't be determined during an inspection without pulling the motor). I've personally replaced the shower sump float switch, un-plugged the plugged A/C condensate line, replaced the horn, replaced all the navigation lights, rebuilt the domestic fresh water pump (it was losing pressure), rebuilt the alcohol stove, replaced the original stereo (it broke) and all the speakers (finished that this morning). I'm currently waiting for a new bilge blower to arrive. That'll be fun, too- the old one is neatly tucked in behind the water heater.

The more amenities it has, the more that's gonna break down. It's a boat.

 

[Quit It]

Re: Used cruiser advice appreciated

You're paying for an inspection, not a psychic reading.

Sure, but is there any responsibility/liability if they miss something? If it's just testing things to see if they work today and a more thorough inspection of the transom,hull and stringer then it seems like I should do the "it works today" part and save some bucks

I'm not cancelling the inspection, it would just be much easier to swallow if there was some warranty based on his inspection.

 

[rbh]

Re: Used cruiser advice appreciated

Sure, but is there any responsibility/liability if they miss something? If it's just testing things to see if they work today and a more thorough inspection of the transom,hull and stringer then it seems like I should do the "it works today" part and save some bucks

I'm not cancelling the inspection, it would just be much easier to swallow if there was some warranty based on his inspection.

Holly cow, this threads still going, GOOD for you on doing your homework and the guys for letting you know what to look for.

As for the survey, its going to be broken down into a couple or more catagories such as general boat condition "cabin"
and there is a list of all the things in the cabin he will go over, then you have general condition of hull, and transom area then stringers ETC, ETC.
The big thing I would worry about is the amount of moisture in the transom and stringers "The Rotting Parts"
There is always going to be some moisture thats just the way it is, but the guy that does the survey should have a hardend plastic mallet to sound the areas affected.
There is a distinct sound when you hit an area that is solid or when the fiberglass and wood is seperating
(inside and outside of the hull) or when you hit an area thats rotted.

If he isn't sounding the wood/fiberglass, send his butt packing!!!