V6 or V8 for towing, difference?

[jkust]

Re: V6 or V8 for towing, difference?

They are close in effect but very different in design. To make it simple awd is a system that is a push pull..That is either the front wheels or rear wheels pull or push the vehicle as the primary drive...when wheel slip occurs again either the front rear wheels engage assisting the vehicle in traction. Made simple its a front to rear system and not as robust as a 4x4

4x4 is different in the fact that it it works left to right and is a solid engagement system...Now that may seem trival but with a 4x4 you can turn hard right and step on the gas in deep snow lets say or heavy mud...4x4 will PULL you in the direction you turn becuase it is a left to right traction system...Awd will not do that remeber its a push pull that is the rear wheels are pushing you straight..yes if whell slip occurs the front will pull you in a direction but the rears are pushing straight and that can cause some issues.

Example your going uphil around a corner with awd your wheels slip losing traction and you cant turn as well..Now with 4x4 if that happens if you step on the gas the 4x4 will pull you in the direction you are turning and if you let off the gas....you will lose the turning effect.

Years ago Ford came up with something callled control trac...In essence it used speed sensors to detect wheel speed variation and would mechanically couple into 4x4 in 6/10 of a sec....It was the best of both world's and of course in a 4x4 one could split the transfer case..aka gear reduction

Todays tech is different again i believe it could be said that 4 wheel drives are really front wheel drive with rear assist and yet you can still split the transfer case...Some of the crossovers have 4 wheel indpendent awd along with gyro scopes that keep the vehicle level at all times they use the brakes to accomplish this....Maybe E4OD might chime in i beleive hes a ford tech.

In the end a 4x4 for a heavy boat is more robust and will take the abuse...Hmm ever seen a F series with AWD...Not yet

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Control_Trac

It gets a little fuzzy to me now that there are so many different AWD systems that work with very different logic from eachother. I know somebody who just bought a 2005 Ford Escape and I think that has the system that came after the one you described above. They call it a 4 wheel drive but has no ability to lock into low range and is automatic with no button. The description to me is exactly how I think of on demand AWD system but Ford still called it 4wd.
Another odd thing to me is how many full sized SUV's have Automatic On Demand AWD with no switch or low range. Escalade, Denali, previous generation Durango and others. I get the commercial logic that people won't go off roading in them but Suburbans have it and I don't know anybody who goes offroad with a new Suburban.

 

[evolution1985]

Re: V6 or V8 for towing, difference?

Back in 1999 I owned both a 4.0L V6 and a 5.0L V8 Explorer, the 4.0L was a few years old, the 5.0L V8 model was by far my favorite to drive but then again, gasoline was cheaper then.
The biggest advantage I found between the two is that the V8 model came with a far stronger transmission when it came to towing, the 4R70W transmission is basically the same trans used in the F series. The 5R55 or variants there of, are based off the earlier A4LD which is a light duty automatic trans at best. The 4R70W is a well proven design and personally I've gotten as many as 230,000 miles from one.
Fuel usage wise, the two trucks were close, the 4.0L V6 was never what I considered fuel efficient, and the few times I did check my mileage, it was never more than a mile per gallon off, in either direction. Sometimes the V6 did better, some times the V8 did better. I think the V8 did better when towing. Towing even a very light trailer would make a huge difference in mileage on the V6 truck.
I would expect similar results from the newer model Explorer which in the USA used the newer 4.6L OHC V8, which is far more efficient on gas then was the 5.0L push rod style motor.

thanks mate, always good to hear from someone that has had both
the V8 explorer's here are the 4.6 too so should be good

It gets a little fuzzy to me now that there are so many different AWD systems that work with very different logic from eachother. I know somebody who just bought a 2005 Ford Escape and I think that has the system that came after the one you described above. They call it a 4 wheel drive but has no ability to lock into low range and is automatic with no button. The description to me is exactly how I think of on demand AWD system but Ford still called it 4wd.
Another odd thing to me is how many full sized SUV's have Automatic On Demand AWD with no switch or low range. Escalade, Denali, previous generation Durango and others. I get the commercial logic that people won't go off roading in them but Suburbans have it and I don't know anybody who goes offroad with a new Suburban.

Yep I have to agree with you, there is a huge difference to vehicals that use an elctronic system to differenciate the torque loads to wheels in an "on demand system" and a vehical that has actual mechanical low range gearing. I am not saying that an explorer is going to be a weapon off road as to be honest with you its not. I have taken it on sand and fire trails and thats about as far as I'll take it. If I wanted an off road rig, to be honest I would buy a GQ patrol, great off road and it wouldn't matter if I scratched or dented it. From what everyone has been saying the V8 explorer is by far the pick to tow with, so I will ask the dealer if I can test drive with my boat

 

[evolution1985]

Re: V6 or V8 for towing, difference?

How about that new Holden Colorado? I see that comes in Austraila with a Diesel and generous tow rating! I could only wish the U.S. had smaller more efficient tow vehicles.

Yeah Im actually testing one in a few days, bit of a price difference but its new vs OLD haha. Im expecting allot to be honest, they still run the IZUZU diesel, and izuzu make a GREAT diesel. so I will fill you all in on how that goes. Hey man I see you have our "monaros" your GTO, they rock dude, I was working at holden when they came out, had a heap of fun doing all the test and evaluations on them for the boss at our dealership. how do you find it?

 

[evolution1985]

Re: V6 or V8 for towing, difference?

My V10 F350 gets better economy than the V8 version of the same truck when towing. It simply doesn't have to work as hard.
The only time the V8 gets better than the V10 is idling in stop and go traffic. Out on the road, the V10 is consistently better.

Im hoping one day we can have the V10's here...........................................

 

[dorelse]

Re: V6 or V8 for towing, difference?

I have owned both a 2007 Explorer Sport Trac w/4.0L V6 and a 2008 Explorer Sport Trac w/4.6L V8. I can absolutely attest to the 4.6L V8 getting better gas mileage both towing & non-towing over the 4.0L V6 engine. Both 4x4's, and incidentally, the Sport Trac's also come in an AWD model, that is different from the 4X4 model.

My experience was the the 4.0L V6 I had got around 14 mpg mixed...I actually lost MPG when I traded in my '98 Dodge Ram 1500 QC. Which is why I dumped it after about 6 mos...not at all impressed with that motor. It towed my @2500# boat around just fine...had decent power and a solid transmission. Loved the truck, hated the mpg...engine was up to the task too.

I traded the '07 in for an '08 w/4.6L V8 Sport Trac. I'm a huge fan of that truck & powertrain combination...I could get 21 mpg on the hwy, with about 16-17 around town. It towed wonderfully, had better power & acceleration and frankly could really tow the boat that much better. I'd describe it as the V8 just allowing the engine work so much less than the V6. RPM's are noticeably lower, acceleration is easier and overall, for my needs, it was a much better powertrain for the truck.

I'd still have it if it wouldn't have been totaled out in an accident. I've been driving my Avalanche for 2 years now, and when its time for that to go...I'll be getting another Sport Trac V8 4x4. I should have replaced it with another, but I decided I wanted to camp in the back of the truck, and the Avalanche w/Tent combo was what sold me.

 

[gtochris]

Re: V6 or V8 for towing, difference?

Yeah Im actually testing one in a few days, bit of a price difference but its new vs OLD haha. Im expecting allot to be honest, they still run the IZUZU diesel, and izuzu make a GREAT diesel. so I will fill you all in on how that goes. Hey man I see you have our "monaros" your GTO, they rock dude, I was working at holden when they came out, had a heap of fun doing all the test and evaluations on them for the boss at our dealership. how do you find it?

BTW, The GM Diesels we have here are all Isuzu, MUCH better then the GM one offered prior to Isuzu!

Does your current Explorer have an aftermarket bolt on hitch? In the U.S. It's rare to find a V6 with a tow package and I see most having an aftermarket hitch bolted on under the bumper class 2.
I like the GTO, it is VERY rare here in the U.S. Being the only Holden model ever really imported and that Pontiac went out of business suspension parts and replacement parts due to an accident might be hard to find. Mine has low miles and I still like it so I'll keep it till I can afford the Corvette I want

Im hoping one day we can have the V10's here...........................................

Ford and Dodge Dropped the V10 option , now it is Diesel or the V8 gas. Considering both are powerful options, the Big block V8 and V10 seems to be gone for good.

 

[MarkSee]

Re: V6 or V8 for towing, difference?

As Ford has done away with the 4.6 engine and not available any longer in new models, at least here in the states, are you sure that is a power plant you'd want long term? The technology advances in recent years for small v-8 power trains and trucks as a whole where now "half-ton" models can supposedly tow 9,000 pounds would suggest you see about something newer than 2003.
Mark

 

[Maxum21]

Re: V6 or V8 for towing, difference?

I had an old 1997 Explorer with a 5.0 v8. That thing was a tank and hauled trailers great. Then I recently had a 2007 Explorer Sport trac with a 4.0 v6. It was AWFUL towing my 2400lb boat up hills. Hated the 4.0. The 4.6 v8 is far superior when it comes to towing or doing anything for that matter.

 

[evolution1985]

Re: V6 or V8 for towing, difference?

BTW, The GM Diesels we have here are all Isuzu, MUCH better then the GM one offered prior to Isuzu!

Does your current Explorer have an aftermarket bolt on hitch? In the U.S. It's rare to find a V6 with a tow package and I see most having an aftermarket hitch bolted on under the bumper class 2.
I like the GTO, it is VERY rare here in the U.S. Being the only Holden model ever really imported and that Pontiac went out of business suspension parts and replacement parts due to an accident might be hard to find. Mine has low miles and I still like it so I'll keep it till I can afford the Corvette I want



Ford and Dodge Dropped the V10 option , now it is Diesel or the V8 gas. Considering both are powerful options, the Big block V8 and V10 seems to be gone for good.

Yeah all explorer's that were released here all have the factory integrated hitch. you could upgrade them at the time with load levellers but the hitch itself remained the same. I test drive the colarado tomorrow so it should be interesting. Mate in all seriousness I have imported a ton of car and boat parts from the states and its not all that bad for shipping if you don't mind waiting a week or two. If you ever need any parts I'll gladly get them all together for you and ship them over to you. the "GTO" is pretty much identical to our VT-VX-VY commodores, the earlier monaros were based on the vt commodore so nearly all parts, body, drive line and trim are interchangeable. the later ones changed to a VY style interior trim but kept the chassis and drive line the same, so Its kind of a hybrid. Nearly all parts are interchangeable and readily available here from donor commodores. the main bits that aren't are the rear seats and doors. There is a HEAP of upgrades and mods that can be done to them. Im pretty certain that there is a 1500HP twin turbo vx commodore kicking around here somewhere. You guys got pretty lucky with them as they were all basically HSV's that were shipped over so its a great base to start on.

 

[evolution1985]

Re: V6 or V8 for towing, difference?

thanks for chiming in mark, It comes down mainly to what I find comfortable and can afford to buy. lols Im still searching but we have a tiny market when it comes to big suv's or half ton utes.

 

[evolution1985]

Re: V6 or V8 for towing, difference?

I had an old 1997 Explorer with a 5.0 v8. That thing was a tank and hauled trailers great. Then I recently had a 2007 Explorer Sport trac with a 4.0 v6. It was AWFUL towing my 2400lb boat up hills. Hated the 4.0. The 4.6 v8 is far superior when it comes to towing or doing anything for that matter.

Thanks mate, that seems to be the general consensus going at the moment.

 

[evolution1985]

Re: V6 or V8 for towing, difference?

I have owned both a 2007 Explorer Sport Trac w/4.0L V6 and a 2008 Explorer Sport Trac w/4.6L V8. I can absolutely attest to the 4.6L V8 getting better gas mileage both towing & non-towing over the 4.0L V6 engine. Both 4x4's, and incidentally, the Sport Trac's also come in an AWD model, that is different from the 4X4 model.

My experience was the the 4.0L V6 I had got around 14 mpg mixed...I actually lost MPG when I traded in my '98 Dodge Ram 1500 QC. Which is why I dumped it after about 6 mos...not at all impressed with that motor. It towed my @2500# boat around just fine...had decent power and a solid transmission. Loved the truck, hated the mpg...engine was up to the task too.

I traded the '07 in for an '08 w/4.6L V8 Sport Trac. I'm a huge fan of that truck & powertrain combination...I could get 21 mpg on the hwy, with about 16-17 around town. It towed wonderfully, had better power & acceleration and frankly could really tow the boat that much better. I'd describe it as the V8 just allowing the engine work so much less than the V6. RPM's are noticeably lower, acceleration is easier and overall, for my needs, it was a much better powertrain for the truck.

I'd still have it if it wouldn't have been totaled out in an accident. I've been driving my Avalanche for 2 years now, and when its time for that to go...I'll be getting another Sport Trac V8 4x4. I should have replaced it with another, but I decided I wanted to camp in the back of the truck, and the Avalanche w/Tent combo was what sold me.

G'day doresle, Thats a pretty solid statement to the V8 right there. I WISH we could get the sport tracks here, I've been eying them off for awhile and was even looking into importing one. but the cost seems a little prohibitive.??????????

 

[aerobat]

Re: V6 or V8 for towing, difference?

I had an old 1997 Explorer with a 5.0 v8. That thing was a tank and hauled trailers great. Then I recently had a 2007 Explorer Sport trac with a 4.0 v6. It was AWFUL towing my 2400lb boat up hills. Hated the 4.0. The 4.6 v8 is far superior when it comes to towing or doing anything for that matter.

LOL, here in europe such small boat weights are towed easily with a toyota rav or similar, with an 2litre inline4 turbodiesel, and a fuel burn half of that what you claim . so when you had problems with a 4.0 you driving skills or the overall construction is poor.

on the other hand, since fuel is still silly cheap in USA- go for the V8. alone the sound is worth it !

 

[evolution1985]

Re: V6 or V8 for towing, difference?

on the other hand, since fuel is still silly cheap in USA- go for the V8. alone the sound is worth it !

G'day aerobat, I am actually in Australia, east coast. haha I don't know how expensive our fuel is in comparison to the rest of the world but it sure has gone up since I was a younger lad. I can remember when I was about 9 yo, fuel was about 60cents a litre, then when I got my licence at 18 it was about $1.00 a litre. Now on average I pay about $1.40 a litre, so Its expensive all things relative but I don't mind, fuel consumption is part and parcel of owning a big car with a big motor. So I don't mind, although when My father comes around in his little car and laughs at me when He is getting nearly 1000km out of his tank I cringe alittle at my 400km haha

 

[Maxum21]

Re: V6 or V8 for towing, difference?

umm no aerobat my driving skills arent poor. we have a few steep grade highways around here. and i can a guarantee you that a toyota rav4 will not "easily" pull a 2400lb boat + 500lb trailer up a steep hill.

 

[evolution1985]

Re: V6 or V8 for towing, difference?

nope it won't , thats only a couple of hundred kilos off its max towing capacity. Also the rav motors aren't known for being overly Torquay, at least not here.

But that being said, every one has a different experience when you have a different expectation.

 

[ThreeMileBayWaker]

Re: V6 or V8 for towing, difference?

My 4.2 inline six in my trailblazer has 291Hp and 277 tq. is rated for 4,000lbs and tows my 20' boat and trailer 3,200 lbs (gear&fuel) with no problems. I had no desire for a V8 since my work commute is local driving, so I still get decent mpg's.

 

[TorchedGT]

Re: V6 or V8 for towing, difference?

As some have alluded to on here, the horsepower numbers don't always mean everything. Sure, if you've got a "cheap" truck or SUV that's got a huge engine in it, it'll feel just fine in most situations - on the flip side, you can have an older vehicle that was well engineered and built like a tank with hardly any horsepower and it'll feel great towing most items.

My old 1999 land rover discovery II has like 187HP (YES it's a V8! So that's another thing worth mentioning, just calling it a V8 doesn't mean it's any better than a V6 - in this case, the old Rover [ie. Buick] 4.0 makes half as much as a high-output V6).

Anyways with a 4 speed and that old 4.0 V8 that thing towed the ***** out of my 20' twin engine yamaha bow rider, probably nearly the weight mentioned in the OP. The solid frame, rather large brakes, trans/oil coolers, and leveling air suspension gave this thing a 7,700lb tow rating even though it has under 190hp!! I always felt safe with a boat behind me, even in the worst kind of stop-and-go traffic where idiots keep cutting you off when you leave some space - 165k miles and going strong(ish)

I'd focus on overall wheelbase and suspension type / spring rates and stuff like cooling capabilities before I looked at the engine, but since the OP has the vehicle picked out already (and if that's your only question) ..then yes, go with the V8. I'm not an expert on that model but I'd venture a guess that everything else is beefier too (springs, brakes, trans, axles, diffs, etc) - all of which are important after you start throwing distance on it.

 

[bigdee]

Re: V6 or V8 for towing, difference?

As some have alluded to on here, the horsepower numbers don't always mean everything. Sure, if you've got a "cheap" truck or SUV that's got a huge engine in it, it'll feel just fine in most situations - on the flip side, you can have an older vehicle that was well engineered and built like a tank with hardly any horsepower and it'll feel great towing most items.

My old 1999 land rover discovery II has like 187HP (YES it's a V8! So that's another thing worth mentioning, just calling it a V8 doesn't mean it's any better than a V6 - in this case, the old Rover [ie. Buick] 4.0 makes half as much as a high-output V6).

Anyways with a 4 speed and that old 4.0 V8 that thing towed the ***** out of my 20' twin engine yamaha bow rider, probably nearly the weight mentioned in the OP. The solid frame, rather large brakes, trans/oil coolers, and leveling air suspension gave this thing a 7,700lb tow rating even though it has under 190hp!! I always felt safe with a boat behind me, even in the worst kind of stop-and-go traffic where idiots keep cutting you off when you leave some space - 165k miles and going strong(ish)

I'd focus on overall wheelbase and suspension type / spring rates and stuff like cooling capabilities before I looked at the engine, but since the OP has the vehicle picked out already (and if that's your only question) ..then yes, go with the V8. I'm not an expert on that model but I'd venture a guess that everything else is beefier too (springs, brakes, trans, axles, diffs, etc) - all of which are important after you start throwing distance on it.

The Range Rover is a beast of a tow vehichle just like the old inline six FJ landcruisers and the inline six F-150. It does not take a bunch of horsepower to move a boat trailer unless it is on skids instead of wheels. Increased acceleration and passing time....but why? I have seen a lot more driveline failures in big V8s for this very reason. If you do not have a gentle right foot less hp will be easier on the drivetrain. With an excess amount of HP it is pertinent to understand the dynamics of pulling a weight behind you.

 

[jkust]

Re: V6 or V8 for towing, difference?

The Range Rover is a beast of a tow vehichle just like the old inline six FJ landcruisers and the inline six F-150. It does not take a bunch of horsepower to move a boat trailer unless it is on skids instead of wheels. Increased acceleration and passing time....but why? I have seen a lot more driveline failures in big V8s for this very reason. If you do not have a gentle right foot less hp will be easier on the drivetrain. With an excess amount of HP it is pertinent to understand the dynamics of pulling a weight behind you.

I don't care about HP but I do care about TQ for towing. That said the biggest value in a lot of tq that I have experienced towing with a substandard v6 vehicle with little tq and then multiple true towing vehicles with good not great v8 tq is the dead stop start at stop lights. The difference is keeping up with traffic and holding up traffic. Of course in the unlikely event I need to pass someone, the higher tq vehicle is nice as well. It takes nothing to pull my 4000lb+ out of the water on the trailer even with my 180 hp v6. Regardless of how steep the ramp, the v6 pulls out effortlessly and I actually have wondered how small of a motor could pull the boat out. I'd bet a low power, 4 cylinder all else equal could pull the boat out with ease in a vacuum. I have to say the biggest suprise I've had towing is the realization of how powerful even a small engine is compared to my previous paradigm that was based on truck commercials. The truck frame and other capabilities to me however are a must and around here at least if I'm buying a truck, it is going to have the most power offered whatever that be.