Volvo Penta starting problem

[andy01625]

I have recently bought a used Doral 190 with a 4.3 Volvo Penta which had not been used for approx 6 months. Initial teathing problems included replacing exhaust parts and HT leads. Since the boat had been running and starting fine up until yesterday.

After waterskiing on and off for most of the day, stopping and starting i tried to start the engine. The turnover from the starter was extreamly slow as if the battery had little power. Once turnover momentum was gained the engine fired and ran fine. I found it strange the way the starting process behaved like this so suddenly after being fine all day and weeks before. I removed the battery which is fairly new and had it tested and results confirmed its in good condition.

Any ideas?

Andy

 

[jerryjerry05]

Re: Volvo Penta starting problem

Year? Model# Serial#s??Profile,Location? You might be close to someone who can help.
Possible the starters getting old? Loose connection on the starter,battery? Check these for tightness and corrosion.
Overheating? Impeller,risers,manifold? Age?
Hydro-lock? Water in one or more cylinders. Possible the exhaust flappers disapeared?
That'll give you somewhere to start.

 

[andy01625]

Re: Volvo Penta starting problem

Jerry,

Not sure on the year of the engine. Model number is 4.3 GXI F. I seem to have two sets of serial type numbers, they read:
4.3 GXI F
3869306
4012186700

SX-M
3869341
4151124203

The location of the boat is Dubai, UAE and is kept in a wet berth. Al Masood seems to be the Volvo Penta dealer here but wanted to try on here for help before i pay through the arm there.

I have checked the starter connections and they are fine. However there does appear to be some corrosion on the outside of the starter. The boat seems to have developed a small leak and when we return to use the boat at the weekend water is touching the underside of the starter.

The engine doesnt seem to be overheating. Oil and water temps are always reading fine on the dials. However after buying the boat both exhaust risers and elbows have been replaced as they both developed holes in them and gaskets went after we started using. I belive the boat had not been used for months before we bought it and started using.

No idea what a hydo lock is, or how it would happen, or if water is in a cylinder and wouldnt know how to check this. However at WOT the engine is only reaching 3000 rpm, way below the manufacturers rating of 4800rpm. I believe the prop is the standard stainless one which is volvo penta so am ruling this out.

Regarding the exhaust flappers - We did have another starting issue which we appointed a 'cowboy' mechanic to have a look at. I remember him saying he 'removed' a exhaust flap/valve which he said had corroded shut and advised that it was not needed. I was dubious about this but not being a mechanic myself assumed he had better judgement.

Look forward to more help.

Andy

 

[Don S]

Re: Volvo Penta starting problem

You didn't by some chance shut the engine off while you was just coming off plane did you. That would allow water to push into the exaust and get a little in a cylinder. That would cause it to crank slow for only 1 revolution of the motor, then that little bit of water would be gone.

Or, if there was a lot of extra weight on the back of the boat, some water could get into the exhaust.

 

[andy01625]

Re: Volvo Penta starting problem

Don,

No we had come to a complete stop and resting when i turned the engine off and there were two people in the back.

I tried to start the engine again yesterday and the engine in not even turning over. The starter seems to be making a very weak spinning noise and thats it.

Andy

 

[jerryjerry05]

Re: Volvo Penta starting problem

The exhaust flappers are a MUST!!!!
The leak in the boat,any salt water will ruin a starter fast.
Salt and heat,not a good combination.No bildge pump?
Replace the flappers, replace the starter,or get it rebuilt.
But you really need to pull the plugs and see if there is water in the cylinders.
If there is?? Turn the motor over and get the water out and spray some WD-40 or some other spray.
ANYTHING is better than nothing.
What condition is the boats bottom? Any barnacles or slime build up?
That will slow you down and drop the rpm/s.
If not do a compession test.

 

[Don S]

Re: Volvo Penta starting problem

Regarding the exhaust flappers - We did have another starting issue which we appointed a 'cowboy' mechanic to have a look at. I remember him saying he 'removed' a exhaust flap/valve which he said had corroded shut and advised that it was not needed.

Interesting that he removed one, since Volvo stopped using exhaust flappers in 96. Do you know where the parts were located that he removed? or what they looked like?

 

[andy01625]

Re: Volvo Penta starting problem

Don - I dont know what the part looked like or where it was removed from.

Jerry - Starter is out and being replaced. The bilge fitted before was a manual type so this is being replaced with a automatic version with float switch.

The hull has been anti fouled and has no growth or anything on it.

Thanks

Andy

 

[Don S]

Re: Volvo Penta starting problem

Don - I dont know what the part looked like or where it was removed from.

Look at your engine and see if you have the two valves screwed into the side of your exhaust elbows like those shown in the image below (Green arrows and circles).

 

[jerryjerry05]

Re: Volvo Penta starting problem

The 4.3 gx is the motor model.
The SX is the drive model.
Get someone to do a compression test.
3000 rpm. What speed does that give you?
Make sure the tach is right.

Hey Don,since they stopped using flappers?? How do they stop the water from backing up into the exhaust?
I know some older Volvos had a flapper in the exhaust,does this one?

 

[Don S]

Re: Volvo Penta starting problem

Hey Don,since they stopped using flappers?? How do they stop the water from backing up into the exhaust?

Doesn't seem to be a problem without them. Here is what the 99 service bulletin said.

After extensive testing Volvo Penta has found that the exhaust flapper valve located in the exhaust pipe is not effective
in preventing water ingestion. The valve has a short lifespan and has been known to disconnect from its pivot
rod and clog the exhaust system. Therefore, Volvo Penta will no longer include an exhaust flapper valve on the
engines listed above.

The flappers in the bellows was on the early 280's, a completely different style drive.

 

[andy01625]

Re: Volvo Penta starting problem

Don,

Great picture. The engine does have those two valves which we have replaced. I spoke to Al Masood Dubai local volvo dealer and he confirmed exactly what you have said about the flapper type valves.

At 3000rpm we are reaching about 43mph. I am assuming both dials are reading right. The leak apparantly has been coming from the drive shaft bellow. This has been replaced along with the gimble bearing now and other gear box seals. I opened the gear box up and the oil inside was like milk. The whole unit has been stripped cleaned with petrol and oil and being put back together with new seals and oil etc.

Volvo think that the state of the gear box oil is 90% the reason why the engine isnt reaching full RPM. Once thats fixed if its still not reaching anywhere near what it should be they will do a compression test. The propeller is a 3 blade stainless 21 3/4, 17.

Hoping the gearbox oil will solve the problem. Not convinced myself. Hopefully will be back in the water tomorrow for a test.

Andy

 

[Don S]

Re: Volvo Penta starting problem

Water in the drive oil is not going to cause the engine to slow down, unless the drive is locking up. If that was happening, when you pulled it back to idle it would probably die.

I would have the shop do a compression check to see if a valve is burned or warped, that could cause both your rpm loss, and water in a cylinder.
Those valves are actually vacuum breaks. The 4.3 engines are really bad about reversion (sucking water back into the cylinders) at idle rpm. and those valves helps to prevent reversion from happening.
A bad intake valve will suck water in. Even a bad plug wire or spark plug can increase reversion.