Water Pump Housing Problems & More

[Landscaping Wiz 808]

My '86 Johnson 9.9 is fighting me. Here's what I have done so far:

-Cleaned the carb (including new float & needle valve retainer)
-Drained, Inspected and refilled lower unit (no water)
-currently working on water pump

And I have a few questions...5 to be exact:

1.) One of the four bolts that holds the housing has stripped out. I had barely tightened the bolt when this happened. I don't know if this has anything to do with it, but when I disassembled the old unit there was a stainless steel washer on top of that hole. I moved the housing & base plate and the threads are still good about 2mils further down. Can I just use a longer bolt & is this a common problem? The other 3 bolts are fine.

2.) The grommet for the water tube doesn't seem to fit quite right. Can you please check the picture (pic 2, red arrow) to see if it looks right? The rebuild kit came w/ 3 different grommets, but this was the only one that came close to fitting.

3.) There is a phillips head screw in the lower unit (pic 3, red arrow). Is this supposed to be here?

4.) I test fitted the lower unit on since the new housing is slightly different and when I took it back off the replacement rubber ring at the top of the driveshaft was gone. I think it must be up near the block because I can't find it on the floor anywhere. If it is, will it cause any damage if left up there?

5.) When pushing the housing over the impeller should I be turning the shaft clockwise or counterclockwise?

If you made it this far, THANK YOU for bearing with me! I know these are rookie questions, and any help is greatly appreciated! Here are the pictures.

BOB

 

[Rick.]

Re: Water Pump Housing Problems & More

1.) One of the four bolts that holds the housing has stripped out. I had barely tightened the bolt when this happened. I don't know if this has anything to do with it, but when I disassembled the old unit there was a stainless steel washer on top of that hole. I moved the housing & base plate and the threads are still good about 2mils further down. Can I just use a longer bolt & is this a common problem? The other 3 bolts are fine.

IT isn't a common problem. For sure try a longer bolt and if it works your problem is solved.

2.) The grommet for the water tube doesn't seem to fit quite right. Can you please check the picture (pic 2, red arrow) to see if it looks right? The rebuild kit came w/ 3 different grommets, but this was the only one that came close to fitting.

They are usually a little higher than the top of the pump. The 15 takes a lager grommet than the 9.9 and not sure about the third one.

3.) There is a phillips head screw in the lower unit (pic 3, red arrow). Is this supposed to be here?

Yes it needs to be there. Don't ever remove it as it holds the alignment of the shifter fork and is a real pain to get back in if removed.

4.) I test fitted the lower unit on since the new housing is slightly different and when I took it back off the replacement rubber ring at the top of the driveshaft was gone. I think it must be up near the block because I can't find it on the floor anywhere. If it is, will it cause any damage if left up there?

Probably up there still. You could try an air gun to dislodge it. It needs to be in the recess on the shaft below the splines. It's job is to prevent water from getting into the spline joint and rusting things together.

5.) When pushing the housing over the impeller should I be turning the shaft clockwise or counterclockwise?

If turning the shaft, always clockwise. Try greasing the impeller and turn the housing down over it. That woks the best for me. The motor turns clockwise and so does the shaft. Therefore the impeller turns clockwise with the blades following behind. Hope this helps. Rick.

 

[Landscaping Wiz 808]

Re: Water Pump Housing Problems & More

Thanks Rick!

I'm still a little worried about that grommet, but as long as water is pumping I'll be happy. Thanks again.

BOB

 

[Landscaping Wiz 808]

Re: Water Pump Housing Problems & More

Got it all back together correctly!

-I got a 1.5 inch 1/4 20 bolt and cut it down - worked perfectly!
-Turns out the grommet was installed...um...upside down...DUH!
-replaced the rubber ring at the top of the driveshaft - the first one is off in the twilight zone somewhere!

Water test on Saturday (muffs in the driveway tomorrow)!

BOB

 

[rusirius]

Re: Water Pump Housing Problems & More

Just figured I'd throw in a couple of extra points...

1.) One of the four bolts that holds the housing has stripped out. I had barely tightened the bolt when this happened. I don't know if this has anything to do with it, but when I disassembled the old unit there was a stainless steel washer on top of that hole. I moved the housing & base plate and the threads are still good about 2mils further down. Can I just use a longer bolt & is this a common problem? The other 3 bolts are fine.

IT isn't a common problem. For sure try a longer bolt and if it works your problem is solved.

As long as it torques up to spec using a longer screw shouldn't be a problem. I always just worry about things like that though because torqued or not you never know how many threads actually have a bite.

My preference is always to just drill it out and pop in a helicoil. It's quick, simple, and they work really fantastic... You end up with threads that are stronger than the original.

5.) When pushing the housing over the impeller should I be turning the shaft clockwise or counterclockwise?

If turning the shaft, always clockwise. Try greasing the impeller and turn the housing down over it. That woks the best for me. The motor turns clockwise and so does the shaft. Therefore the impeller turns clockwise with the blades following behind. Hope this helps. Rick.

You'll have to check the specifics of your motor, but I've always found it much easier to do everything on the shaft itself with it removed. In other words, pull the driveshaft out, slide the housing, impeller, key etc where you can easily access and do the work....

The reason I mention checking the specs on your engine first is that I know SOME lowers you can't pull the driveshaft on... Well, you CAN pull the driveshaft, but you can't get it back in place without completely disassembling the lower... If you can pull it though, it sure makes easy work of a waterpump rebuild....

 

[Landscaping Wiz 808]

Re: Water Pump Housing Problems & More

Just figured I'd throw in a couple of extra points...



As long as it torques up to spec using a longer screw shouldn't be a problem. I always just worry about things like that though because torqued or not you never know how many threads actually have a bite.

My preference is always to just drill it out and pop in a helicoil. It's quick, simple, and they work really fantastic... You end up with threads that are stronger than the original.

I didn't torque the bolt, I just tightened it until it was fairly snug. I'd have to imagine there's only one or two threads holding her. I found a helicoil kit for this size bolt, but was wondering if it'll work since it's a blind hole. Any ideas? Looks like I'll be disassembling the lower unit again.

http://5stores.com/index.php?main_p...=11291&zenid=c996e8f41029a4c11f3cc722b8b6d3e3

I assembled the water pump housing with the skeg of the lower unit in the vise. The driveshaft came apart from the block with no problems.

 

[Rick.]

Re: Water Pump Housing Problems & More

Unless your looking for trouble I'd leave it be. As long as it's holding leave it. Even if it were to fall out your not going to loose you leg. Call me a chicken. Rick.

 

[Landscaping Wiz 808]

Re: Water Pump Housing Problems & More

You're a right thinking chicken! HA!

I'll wait until next year to do the helicoil thing, unless I start hearing a loose bolt bouncing around down there.

This also means that I get to take the boat out tomorrow! 75 degrees and sunny...I'll take some pictures of the fish I catch!

BOB

 

[rusirius]

Re: Water Pump Housing Problems & More

I've never been called a chicken... And sometimes that gets me into trouble, but I'd advise the opposite of Rick...

If you didn't torque the bolts then there's always a chance that it'll leak due to bad seal... A leaky water pump might not be the end of the world, but it certainly doesn't help with cooling either...

Call me a stickler but I've never been a fan of doing things half-arse... Especially something as critical as cooling for the engine..

As for the helicoil kit... There's nothing to it... I use them all the time... Maybe that's a bad thing... LOL...

Anyway, doesn't matter if the hole is blind or not... I'm guessing the waterpump bolts are 1/4-20? So you'd drill it out with a 17/64 bit... Doesn't have to be any deeper than the original hole... Then you just run a tap (supplied with the helicoil kit) down it... Afterwards you put the coil on the "insertion tool" and "screw" it down in until the coil is about 1 thread below the surface... At the bottom of the coil is a little "tang" that's used by the tool when screwing in... You pop the tool out, turn it a 1/4 turn so it "hits" the tang and then just give it a little pop by hand... That breaks the tang off and you've got a brand new threaded hole... Piece of cake for piece of mind in my opinion...

If you don't have a torque wrench and don't want to buy one at least borrow one... When it comes to head bolts, waterpump bolts, and a few others I ALWAYS torque them to spec... Anything more and you risk stripping the threads... less and you risk a leak or improperly seated gasket...

Just my .02 cents...

 

[Landscaping Wiz 808]

Re: Water Pump Housing Problems & More

AW MAN! I feel like a politician bouncing back and forth on the topic on hand!

OK, here's the compromise:
I'll order the needed helicoil kit tonight, Go fishing using the motor (gently) tomorrow, and install the helicoil as soon as it's delivered.

rusirius - I still have a question about the helicoil though. When I said blind hole, I meant that it's only open/accessible from one end. Do I just cut the new thread from the helicoil kit to the needed length prior to installation?

BOB

 

[Rick.]

Re: Water Pump Housing Problems & More

Call me a Chicken but if your saying I'm a half-arse repairman I'm really hurt. I'll put my motors up against any. You make an excellent case for using the heli but I just don't think it's warranted if the longer bolt is doing the job. It's your call Bob. Just remember how much you paid for my advice!! Good luck. Rick.

 

[rusirius]

Re: Water Pump Housing Problems & More

rusirius - I still have a question about the helicoil though. When I said blind hole, I meant that it's only open/accessible from one end. Do I just cut the new thread from the helicoil kit to the needed length prior to installation?

BOB

Nah, won't need to... If it's 1/4-20 for example the coil will only be like 6 or 7 threads in length... If the hole is 1/2" deep or so it'll be plenty..

And Rick, nah! not saying anything about your work! I just personally wouldn't trust a waterpump bolt with only a thread or two holding... Technically with only a couple threads I can't imagine it would ever hold to torque to spec...

 

[Landscaping Wiz 808]

Re: Water Pump Housing Problems & More

Call me a Chicken but if your saying I'm a half-arse repairman I'm really hurt. I'll put my motors up against any. You make an excellent case for using the heli but I just don't think it's warranted if the longer bolt is doing the job. It's your call Bob. Just remember how much you paid for my advice!! Good luck. Rick.

NO WAY! You've been helping me with this motor all the way since the original motor ID! And remember, I haven't figured out the whole air silencer thing yet, so keep that free advice coming! I've never used one of these helicoil kits though, and I'm interested to see how it works. In all reality I'll probably just wait until the next time I have to drop the lower unit though.

BOB

 

[EARLS BOAT]

Re: Water Pump Housing Problems & More

The Phillips Head Screw Is Holding Your Shift Cradle And Acts As A Pivot. It Most Certainly Needs To Br There!! Thats About All I Can Help With. Good Luck !!

 

[Landscaping Wiz 808]

Re: Water Pump Housing Problems & More

SHE RAN LIKE A DREAM!!! I'm going back out tomorrow, even though there's a slight chance of rain.

BOB

- And when I say she ran like a dream she ran like a DREAM! Thanks again Rick!! I'm going to start a new thread with the video link, but here are some pictures:

BOB

 

[Rick.]

Re: Water Pump Housing Problems & More

Hey Bob. A picture is worth a 1000 words. I'm so glad your motor worked so well for you. I'm always concerned about maiden voyages. Seems like I've heard so many horror stories. What kind of boat are you using. Your motor seems like it's moving it well. All the best and your more than welcome for any help/advice I gave. Rick.

 

[Landscaping Wiz 808]

Re: Water Pump Housing Problems & More

Hey Rick - I'm running her on a 12'er aluminum v-hull Sea Nymph. She moves alright, the boat/myself/100+lbs of Gear = 27mph on the gps. I don't know if you saw the video:

http://s336.photobucket.com/albums/n326/landscapingwiz808/?action=view&current=HPIM0607.flv

By the way, my telltale was spitting water like it was allergic!

BOB

 

[Rick.]

Re: Water Pump Housing Problems & More

Great video. You better throw out a drift sock as 27mph. is scary fast in a 12ft. Great job. Hope it runs like that all summer and many more. Rick.

 

[porkchop3292]

Re: Water Pump Housing Problems & More

i have a 1975 70 horse johnson that i changed the water pump and housing after reinstalling i have water coming up around bottom of power head. i don't know what i did wrong .i can tell ya that the water tube was real loose in the exhaust flange i do see where the seal is making contact with the housing so i know i got a good seal there any help i could use