water pump problems

[OMC-boy5.5]

on my 57 evinrude 5.5 I just got it running and realized that it wasn't pumping water (after about 10 seconds run time). So I ordered a new impeller, plate, and all the gaskets....... I received all the parts and started teardown, only to find that the impeller was in perfect condition!..... Anybody have any ideas as to why it wouldn't pump water for me? When I took the pump housing apart, there wasn't a gasket in between the top and the plate, should there be? Everything appeared to be assembled correctly when tearing down, so I guess I'm stumped. I did let the motor sit in the water for a few minutes to soak up the water too before first starting.

 

[tashasdaddy]

Re: water pump problems

sorry do not have a manual that old.

 

[Vic.S]

Re: water pump problems

No there is no gasket shown between the impeller housing and the plate in the parts breakdown.

impeller drive pin in position?
Pump housing OK?
water tube grommet Ok?.. presumably replaced.
Water tube located correctly in grommet?
Unit submerged sufficiently?


Going to have to drop the gearcase off again to investigate.

Might try sitting it in a bucket of water and spinning it with an a electric drill. That will confirm, or otherwise, that the pump is actually pumping.

Try attaching a hose to the watertube... make sure you can actually get water to flow through the power head.

 

[OMC-boy5.5]

Update

Update

Ok, I'm starting to get time to work on this project and getting parts in.... I've got the whole thing currently torn apart and today got a new propshaft seal put in.

I have the parts: impellar, plate, water tube grommet, two parts for the top of the driveshaft (can't remember specific), base gasket for powerhead, and base gasket for pump housing.

MY QUESTION IS:

Does anybody have a parts breakdown of the lower unit so I can be sure everything is going back together correctly?

More specifically, I'm most in need of the parts breakdown of the assembly on the top of the driveshaft where it attaches to the powerhead. I looked at one while getting parts at a dealer, but soon since have forgotten what is all there and what order.

 

[Vic.S]

Re: water pump problems

If the parts catalog diagrams are sufficient then see HERE

If you need more than that then you need the full manual from Ken Cook Co. or maybe you can find one on ebay.

 

[river critter]

Re: water pump problems

I'm going to have to do the water pump also on my '59 5.5 hp. Got the Ignition done this morning got to here it run. Next carb rebuild and water pump

 

[OptsyEagle]

Re: Update

Re: Update

Ok, I'm starting to get time to work on this project and getting parts in.... I've got the whole thing currently torn apart and today got a new propshaft seal put in.

I have the parts: impellar, plate, water tube grommet, two parts for the top of the driveshaft (can't remember specific), base gasket for powerhead, and base gasket for pump housing.

MY QUESTION IS:

Does anybody have a parts breakdown of the lower unit so I can be sure everything is going back together correctly?

More specifically, I'm most in need of the parts breakdown of the assembly on the top of the driveshaft where it attaches to the powerhead. I looked at one while getting parts at a dealer, but soon since have forgotten what is all there and what order.

Here is the parts list you need. Perhaps the last person to service the water pump did not get the copper tube inside the water pump grommet. On those models the tube doesn't exactly go into the grommet on its own, you need to guide it in with your hand. After you get the lower unit back on, it is a good idea to shine a flashlight down from the top where the powerhead should be to verify the copper tube is inserted properly. Something to remember for your re-assembly as well. Good luck.

 

[OMC-boy5.5]

Update

Update

Well, finally tonight I got the time to put it all back together. There were a few mistakes, but that was to be expected.

So, when I finally went to start it (the powerhead lost it's prime while taken off) so I pulled and pulled then heard the distinct- CLICK.... WALALALALA and the rope stayed in my hand........ Shat. A while later I got it running (rope on the flywheel) and then noticed it still wasn't pumping water!........ Shat. So then my dad for some reason suggests that we use the muffs (instead of the bucket) because the pump may have needed a prime or something..... Sure as heck, she started pumping water.

So now I'm thinking that was essentially a huge waste of time and about $40. If only I would've muffed it the first time......But at least I know she'll pump water for a long time to come.

NEW QUESTION: Do you guys think that it would be possible to bring in the Pump housing and have it machined down a couple thousandths to get rid of the fair amount of pitting? I could do it at school in our full machine shop, I just need to know if there are certain tolerances there or whatever else.

 

[petryshyn]

Re: water pump problems

engines on muffs can be deceptive. Did you try it again just in a bucket? It has to pump from a bucket or it won't pump in the lake. Be sure the bucket is deep enough.
Machining is subjective to how bad it is.

 

[OMC-boy5.5]

Re: water pump problems

I definitely see where you're coming from. I haven't tried it in the bucket again, but I don't think I had the water pressure that high to pump it through the entire powerhead, but who knows.... I got some gas to burn anyway before winter comes, plus I kinda like seeing this project 'done'.

I do need to get a new bolt for my other johnson 5.5 (the one (of two) that clamps it to the transom)...... I only had one stand while working on the Rude and this one happened to topple over while leaning on the wall. Needless to say, I need to either get a hold of another one, or make one in machine shop.

I'll try it again in a bucket and if it doesn't work, then I'll try and machine the housing..... it'd at least be worth a shot.

Got the recoil fixed today too... Much easier on the Rude's than it is on the Johnson's.

 

[OMC-boy5.5]

Re: water pump problems

So, I ran both of my motors in the bucket today. The Johnson was always a real strong pumper and ran really well (even though it took longer than ever to get to start). I then started my 'new' evinrude with the new pump, and it took a while to start pumping, but it did after about 15 seconds. I then realized that it probably only pumped about half as much as the johnson did. Is this normal?

I'm thinking the problems could be:
- sort of clogged powerhead.
- pitted pump housing

So my questions are, do you think if it is a clogged up powerhead that it will clear out with run time. I would also like to bring back up the issue of machining the pump housing. I haven't looked into the cost of a new housing, but do you guys think the housing could be machined.

The problems that I can see with machining is that if it is pitted, wouldn't machining just make the whole thing looser? Or would the better seal be what I'm going for. If I machined the inside of the housing and I shaved off the surface (brim) to counteract the machining; would that work?

If any of you could follow all of that......

 

[Rick.]

Re: water pump problems

You could drop the lower unit and make a make shift connection from a hose to the water tube and really pour the water to it to clean out any debris you might have in the water passages. Machining the pump housing would be a huge waste of time IMO. The pump on these outboards are very simplistic and work well. The impeller veins do not rely on a honed surface to make contact with (some won't agree with that), in fact when your engine RPM gets to a certain speed the impeller veins make no contact at all and it changes from a pulse type pump to a centrifugal pump. You might want to check the water tube to pump connection to insure it is good. Is the motor getting too hot? Rick.

 

[petryshyn]

Re: water pump problems

You could drop the lower unit and make a make shift connection from a hose to the water tube and really pour the water to it to clean out any debris you might have in the water passages. .

Hard to do that on this model, as the powerhead must be removed to drop the leg. The passages in the block should be flushed when powerhead is off or by removing the head.




Post a close-up picture of the housing. Badly worn housings can reduce flow especially at trolling speeds (which is likely what your seeing in a bucket)

 

[OMC-boy5.5]

Re: water pump problems

I would like to avoid dropping the lower end off again as I just got the powerhead glued back on. The housing was pitted in a fair amount of places, and it seemed like there was almost a 'step' from the inside of it to the outside. It seemed doable, so I put it back in. I'm starting to regret that decision, as it does pump, but a lot weaker than the johnson does. I haven't felt the motor too much while running to know if theres a hot spot, but the outside of the head gets warm to the touch, but by no means hot (while idling).

 

[OMC-boy5.5]

Re: water pump problems

ah, I just got some reassurance that what I did was alright. I watched a few videos, and I would compare the amount it pumps to about the amount this one does. (fast forward to 1:00 for a decent picture).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1qIjqWI6oRE

must just be an evinrude thing.....

if you look at all the johnsons and all the rudes, you'll see that (I think) the Johnsons all pump a little better.

 

[Rick.]

Re: water pump problems

Sorry about the miss information I posted. I would not want to have to pull the power head to check things either. So if your head isn't getting hot, then your cooling system is working. That is the best news you could want. Rick.

 

[OMC-boy5.5]

update

update

Just an update on the project. I just put in a carb rebuild kit (though it didn't really need cleaning, I just wanted it for the new float) and it runs awesome. I've determined that the water pump is definitely satisfactory for as much as I will be using it (since I now have two of these, and I only used the last one a few times a year).

To see it running:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t0xAEuKxGvc

Thanks to everybody for your help. I just thought I'd let you guys see the finished product.

PS: If anybody has a PDF of the service manual, I would GREATLY appreciate if you could email it to me. Please PM me and we can set something up.

 

[Rick.]

Re: water pump problems

Thanks for the video. It's always nice to see a motor back in action. IMO your pail is not deep enough. Your water level should be higher up the leg than you have it. That will help the pump deliver more water. I kept thinking it would stop flowing in the video but it didn't.. Great job. That's a good looking engine. Rick.

 

[OMC-boy5.5]

Re: water pump problems

yep, I will be sure to look into using a deeper water source.... I've been running my johnson in it about that depth for a while and never had any issues, but I can definitely see your point seeing as the water line only comes up about 2-3" above the intake holes. I'm sure that actually could've been my whole problem when starting the first time. I'm thinking the housing was dry and wasn't 'primed' enough to pull the water up into the housing and pump throughout, leading me to believe the impeller was burned up and so forth.....

New question: For both of these motors that I have, I've noticed that in the pail there's always a dark brown kind of sludgy oil floating on the surface of the water and usually a large amount all over the bottom of the leg between the cavitation plate and the gearcase. (you can see it in the video at 1:53 floating in front of the leg).... What is this? It doesn't smell like gear lube. It has maybe a little of a burnt smell, so I'm thinking it's just burnt oil.... but that's a lot of burnt oil for the amount it's usually run. Just looking for any opinions.

 

[Rick.]

Re: water pump problems

During combustion the gas burns and for the most part the oil doesn't. The oil is there for lubrication, not combustion. So the dirty unburned oil goes out the exhaust and into your pail/lake. It always looks bad in the pail due to the concentration. I've heard synthetic oil is bio-degradable and have decided that is what I will buy from now on. Don't worry about it though it is perfectly normal. I have a 40 hp with vro and it varies the mix of gas/oil and judging by the amount of oil I've used this summer it probably runs 100/1 far more than 50/1. Eventually I'll even use synthetic oil in it. Rick.