We have Created a Nightmare in this Country

[DayCruiser]

The need for material things is over whelming for some. The "keeping up with the Jones". Having to have the latest gadgets such as high tech cell phones with expensive monthly plans. Homes so big that many don't have time to clean them. Must be in the high class neighborhoods. Just have to have 10,000 TV channels with HD. Some just have to have 2 boats. Not gas sippers either. Some need to the fastest boat. All this adds up to a lot of $$. Leaves people living from check to check. Not much savings for the recession times and health crisis times or fired and laid off times. The results are massive home foreclosures leaving people homeless.
People don't seem to realize how these little payments really add up. Do you finance or pay cash? I have gotten so if I can't pay cash then I wait until I can afford to
Do you feel the need to have the biggest and best of everything? Do you care what people think if you don't? Do you live beyond your means? Do you have a written down annual budget? Why do people feel the need to have mansions where they rarely see some rooms for an entire year?
Consumer spending is the American economy. But when we get weighed down with debt and payments there starts the usual cycle of decline--ie recessions

 

[12vMan]

Re: We have Created a Nightmare in this Country

I'm not in to getting the latest and greatest all the time, but when I do see useful new technology that could benefit me I check into it. I like a reasonably sized house and property that's easy to manage. Sometimes I think it's because I'm too lazy to maintain something too big. I surely don't have the time.
IMO there are the ones that feel compelled to have the biggest, best, etc. even at the risk of losing everything while on the other hand there are the ones who simply can afford whatever they want, so they do. I deal with many customers who can afford luxuries that are out there without borrowing anything. They will write a $50,000.00 check like it's nothing. I say if you want it and can afford it more power to you. It's the ones who can't and are still out there pretending they can that really hurt us.

 

[QC]

Re: We have Created a Nightmare in this Country

Personally I think we are hard wired for what I call bigger, better, faster. That does not mean we should be irresponsible, but it does mean we are driven. If we weren't we wouldn't pursue improved living conditions, stuff, inventions, anything. It is a result of our deeply ingrained need to improve. I have read quite a bit about our origins. While raising teenagers I asked myself "whether it is God or an uncontrolled evolution for some unknown purpose, why are teenagers such idiots?" I determined that it was because they needed to get kicked out of the cave, or they needed to leave of their own volition. They needed to believe they knew better. My point? We are who we were 30,000 years ago. We are driven to see what's around the corner, to find the "best" cave. To search for the biggest game, to seek better climates, more fruits for the gatherers, bigger herds for the hunters. We are supposed to stick our necks out, push the envelope, pursue bigger, better, faster.

Oh, and through lots of research, I determined long ago we actually need seven (7) boats. It's a fact.

 

[DayCruiser]

Re: We have Created a Nightmare in this Country

7 boats haha good one QC. I do like that idea!
I don't ride around the lake all day or every day but at least 2 or 3 days a week. I see people with 2 boats on lifts and 2 jet ski's. The boats are covered to precision. You rarely see them use their things. Maybe on a major Holiday. I see a good many like this. I think, are they having to work all the time to pay for these things? No time to play with them? Big Mansions to boot. The wife speculates that they are at one of their other homes in the Caribbean LOL

 

[southkogs]

Re: We have Created a Nightmare in this Country

There's also a level of what people can afford: If you've got the money to have a home on the lake (2nd home), with 2 boats, 2 jet ski's, a garaged Escalade 4x4 and a hired hand to take care of the stuff when you're not there ... more power to ya. If you don't have two nickels to rub together, but try to keep up with Mr. Jones and his 40-something foot Tiara ... you're a fool and headed for ruin.

There are more people in the second category (to some greater or lesser degree), but the people in the first category are roughly in that camp that JB mentioned ... driven, but not foolish. You don't have to be rich to be in the first category either: a person with a reasonable car that they can easily afford and a boat that is reasonably easy for them to afford is not foolish. Hopefully they continue to grow themselves and their resources and eventually catch up with Mr. Jones.

 

[mscher]

Re: We have Created a Nightmare in this Country

"keeping up with the Joneses" is the main reason we no longer life in caves.

It's easy to get carried away, but remember, even a modest mortgage, becomes a problem, if, for whatever reason(s), you can no longer make the payments.

Nearly no business in American history, has started and fourished without some kind of debt. If one is successful and pays it off, borrow some more and get bigger - or don't borrow more and have lots of profits. If things turn and the debt cannot be repaid - well then...

Many people did not have a lot of problems with credit card debt, until they lost their jobs and health insurance, but the family still needed to see the doctor and the heating fuel oil tank was empty.

Then again a lot of people just spend too much.

I try not to spend too much, but with the price of everything, including used items, it's not too hard to do.

 

[JB]

Re: We have Created a Nightmare in this Country

Many years ago my dad told me possessions at the expense of debt are worry and slavery. My Dad, the philosopher.:facepalm:

I have written and deleted several blogs here, but on critical examination realized that they were all political and not allowed.

Nobody is to blame and we all are to blame. The mistakes we made as individuals differ from one to another and the amount of pain we now suffer differs, too. A lot of good, smart people guessed wrong about what would happen.

Pointing fingers and preaching about greed is exactly the wrong thing to do. Looking in a mirror would probably be more useful.

 

[CoffeeHound]

Re: We have Created a Nightmare in this Country

I really do not see a problem here with people having money . I do not live to make others happy -- just for me to be happy .
I bought a boat , yes and got exactly what i wanted . I saved for it
I bought 2 motors and yes,, paid cash .
BUT one thing I do not do -- is use credit cards or blow into the grocery money !!
Oh and just a bit more > All, but the car is paid for,, and i am doing it on just over $$1000.00 a month !

 

[jkust]

Re: We have Created a Nightmare in this Country

See I wonder if people that you see in your description aren't in fact simply high income earners and not making payments but just paying cash. I feel like a lot of the people that still live like that still do because the actually have the cash and not just the wealth effect of now non existant home equity. In other words, if you were likey you describe without the means to back it up you aren't any longer.

 

[R Socey]

Re: We have Created a Nightmare in this Country

Personally, I don't give a damn what te Jones think of me. I like nice things, but I don't borrow to pay for any of it. I save to get what I want - been paying for a truck motor for three years! When I get it payed for I'll drive it. My boat will take about 10, years to get it the way I want - 6 down. I think people who sate themselves have a void whether they borrow or pay for it out of pocket change.
I have worked for many rich folks - his and hers Rolls Royce rich to your common millionaires. I can tell you that money definately does
not make happiness. Hard work, and being thankful for what you have is where it's at!
I don't begrudge those who live the way they want; if you do no harm to others, whatever you do is cool with me. I see where your coming from - the borrower is a slave to the lender. Credit is nice to have, but paying more for something than you need to is not so nice, and is indicative of said void especially if that behavoir is habitual. Too bad they don't teach those things in school - I learned the hard way. I guess the lenders have the most influence over the curriculum.

 

[DayCruiser]

Re: We have Created a Nightmare in this Country

Ya I don't envy what other people have. I do wish I were rich because I think it would be a lot less stressful to have that cushion of financial security. Not because I want to go out and buy more things. Many rich make the mistake of buying too many things and therefore create stress of trying to manage it all. They have to hire someone to manage their things. Then they have to worry about the manager. They lose control of their lives. Losing control can be stressful by itself. They have homes scattered about the world. Money invested to create more wealth so that they need a money manager. I have read a good many times about these managers fleecing the rich. But the need for more wealth supersedes the need for piece of mind.
I have everything paid for except my home. I buy older model things that I can pay cash for. I have 2 older model boats that I meticulously maintain. Sometimes I have to bust out another $1000 LOL to keep them running. But that is after many years of good service. For me its better than having a high dollar payment and I don't care that they are not new looking. High tech can mean a lot more high tech stuff can go wrong.
You have to be really careful not to let payments get out of hand ie cell phones, Cable TV etc. You need at least 6 months to a years worth of bill paying saved up in the bank in case you are laid off or fired . You really need that if you are self employed.
Banks just announced in May that they were going to step up foreclosing on people. Many more being kicked out of their homes. Many who didn't have the savings to get through a financial crisis

 

[JimS123]

Re: We have Created a Nightmare in this Country

I was brought up in a "thrifty" family (as Grandma used to say). My grandparents never ate steak, never bought anything fancy, never drove the car if the destination was on the bus route and saved every dime. When they passed, their furniture was so old and tattered it wasn't even good enough to give to the Salvation Army. All of their worldly possessions fit in a pickup truck. The fortune they put in the bank was all consumed by the Nursing home they spent their last 2 years in.

I admit to being thrifty but I'm not a spendthrift either. When I bought my first boat Grandma had a fit that I would "waste" that money on something that wasn't necessary. In later years they let me store it in their garage, so I guess they accepted it. When I built the new house they DIDN'T accept that. It was too big and fancy and the why did I need a microwave and extra freezer and patio, etc.

In my defense, the only money I ever borrowed was for a mortgage.

Now let's look at the other side of the coin.......Some of us are car sales people, or real estate sales associates or we work in factories making microwaves and wide screen color tvs or air conditioning units or DVD players or cell phones. If we all lived in the same house for life, drove cars for 20 years before selling them, and never bought any of the aforementioned technology items, we would all be living like cavemen now.

There has to be a balance between living an affordable lifestyle and being on the brink of collapse.

 

[jkust]

Re: We have Created a Nightmare in this Country

I think the philosophy described above borrowing beyond your means to assist with your low pot of self worth to keep up with the Jonses is a personal failure. I'm 39 now my wife is 37, two kids and we are what most would consider in the 'rich' category all from scratch as poor and ultra poor kids. While we can have most things we'd want, we live only an above average lifestyle with zero debt except on the house and not much left there. We don't keep up with anybody just live as we feel is enough. My point I suppose is that during the last decade of excesses we save at least 50% and some years much more of our income. I feel no sympathy for those in the category above that don't have the means to pay their debts while putting the future of their family in peril. My suggestion to the people described is to work a little harder and smarter. Borrowing money for really anything but the biggest purchases has become a foreign concept but being thrifty and making planned out purposeful choices has not. I understand debt can be used to your benefit with leverege etc, but I just refuse to take debt on. I don't know how borrowers way beyond their means can sleep at night. But again, my gut tells me that those days are over and if you still have the stuff and are able to make your payments, you must have the income to pay the debts. As mentioned above, the biggest benefit of having money is not knowing you can buy what you want but knowing you can support your family no matter what happens to our income. In other words you can focus on other things. All that said, I appreciate the freedom we all enjoy to make whatever choices we want. Sometimes you need to fail to succeed but at the end of the day you don't live forever and at some point you realize life is for living.

 

[hostage]

Re: We have Created a Nightmare in this Country

Credit is awesome for owning a house, I pay the same as I did for my apartment/squarefoot as my house. Only difference is I am getting principle own my house, pride of ownership, and larger tax refund. When I buy anything that cost more than a couple hundred dollars I do a lot of research. I found buying a house for $130k in an area B would cost more/month than a house for $170k in area A. Municiple power + cheaper taxes can go a long way in effecting your cost of living. It isn't your income that determines your wealth, it is wealth minus your cost of living. I am 30 and was raised with a silverspoon in my mouth, though I have learned a lot on how to live with comfort.

1) Don't buy more than you need.
-I own a SUV, though I use it for hauling my dog, larger items that couldn't fit in a car, and my boat all the time. Some people I question their need for larger gas guzzling vehicles. It even is better on MPG than a lot of other vehicles

2) Buy used with the exception of food.
-I have a used house, used car, and used boat. That money can go else where for more nesscities or toys.

3) Research everything that cost more than a couple hundred
-You can save $1,000 by just spending a few hours research into an area, you not only save, but you normally walk away happy with what you got. Buyer's remorse cost you more than just money.

4) Less is really more
-I own a 1,600ft^2 house my parents own a 5,000ft^2 house, who do you think enjoys their weekends more as they have to clean less?

5) DIY except surgery
-A little research can show you how much you can do on your own. My $5000 bathroom job would have cost almost $20k if Iwould have hired it all out and I got exactly what I want. I do the grunt work and have someone do the skilled labor stuff.

6) Lower your monthly reoccuring costly items
-I ditched cable TV as all my shows I like are on HULU or netflix, which costs almost nothing compared to cable. Another ~$80 saved/month

7) Buy only what you can afford, within reason
-You need a roof over your head and in many cases a way to get from point A to B. Don't buy a boat on credit, unless your lively hood depends on it. Don't get sucked into CC dept as the intrest rates are much higher. If you have that itch, get something to distract you from it and you will see how you really didn't need it after all.

 

[jkust]

Re: We have Created a Nightmare in this Country

5) DIY except surgery
-A little research can show you how much you can do on your own. My $5000 bathroom job would have cost almost $20k if Iwould have hired it all out and I got exactly what I want. I do the grunt work and have someone do the skilled labor stuff.

I agree here with a few exceptions where special equipment is needed or where weather won't permit. I actually just did my own brakes/new rotors on one of my SUV's having never done brakes before. I can tell you that nobody I know, literally not a single person would do their own brakes to save a couple hundred dollars. A couple neighbors happened to stop by while I was doing it and they were shocked to see me doing what I was doing. I think the fact that I own an impact gun has them scratching their heads.

There is a completely different mindset amongst certain types of people as to how to get wealth and how to handle it and how to act fiscally when you have it or don't have it. A silly example is the cable tv mentioned above. It would never dawn on me in 10 lifetimes to buy cable tv. I wouldn't buy even a $50 dollar package it's just not in my DNA to make the spending decisions so many take for granted.
As for the house situation mentioned above, I do disagree there. The house falls into the 'you live once category' and although our house is well over 5000 sq ft, it is much less stressful to live in a larger space than a smaller space with young boys. If you are a diyer, a large home isn't a big deal but does take a bit more cleaning and again we are the only ones around without a cleaning person. I think many people could be a heck of a lot wealthier if they really put their mind to it.

 

[korygrandy]

Re: We have Created a Nightmare in this Country

I think the philosophy described above borrowing beyond your means to assist with your low pot of self worth to keep up with the Jonses is a personal failure. I'm 39 now my wife is 37, two kids and we are what most would consider in the 'rich' category all from scratch as poor and ultra poor kids. While we can have most things we'd want, we live only an above average lifestyle with zero debt except on the house and not much left there. We don't keep up with anybody just live as we feel is enough. My point I suppose is that during the last decade of excesses we save at least 50% and some years much more of our income. I feel no sympathy for those in the category above that don't have the means to pay their debts while putting the future of their family in peril. My suggestion to the people described is to work a little harder and smarter. Borrowing money for really anything but the biggest purchases has become a foreign concept but being thrifty and making planned out purposeful choices has not. I understand debt can be used to your benefit with leverege etc, but I just refuse to take debt on. I don't know how borrowers way beyond their means can sleep at night. But again, my gut tells me that those days are over and if you still have the stuff and are able to make your payments, you must have the income to pay the debts. As mentioned above, the biggest benefit of having money is not knowing you can buy what you want but knowing you can support your family no matter what happens to our income. In other words you can focus on other things. All that said, I appreciate the freedom we all enjoy to make whatever choices we want. Sometimes you need to fail to succeed but at the end of the day you don't live forever and at some point you realize life is for living.

Amen to that brothah! Life is for living. So many people are not "living". Some are fine with this, and some are not. For me, I haven't lived yet and I won't live until I'm dead...but I am really amping up my energy levels and trying to get some traction to nail my 30s as my high income years. I am doing better than a lot of my friends, and I would say there are a few exceptions. If you constantly walk around comparing yourself to your neighbors, you will die unhappy. Stop worrying about what makes other people happy and try and focus on yourself. So many people are concerned with what others think, unless it's someone that is directly responsible for your well-being, who cares what they think.

 

[korygrandy]

Re: We have Created a Nightmare in this Country

Credit is awesome for owning a house, I pay the same as I did for my apartment/squarefoot as my house. Only difference is I am getting principle own my house, pride of ownership, and larger tax refund. When I buy anything that cost more than a couple hundred dollars I do a lot of research. I found buying a house for $130k in an area B would cost more/month than a house for $170k in area A. Municiple power + cheaper taxes can go a long way in effecting your cost of living. It isn't your income that determines your wealth, it is wealth minus your cost of living. I am 30 and was raised with a silverspoon in my mouth, though I have learned a lot on how to live with comfort.

1) Don't buy more than you need.
-I own a SUV, though I use it for hauling my dog, larger items that couldn't fit in a car, and my boat all the time. Some people I question their need for larger gas guzzling vehicles. It even is better on MPG than a lot of other vehicles

2) Buy used with the exception of food.
-I have a used house, used car, and used boat. That money can go else where for more nesscities or toys.

3) Research everything that cost more than a couple hundred
-You can save $1,000 by just spending a few hours research into an area, you not only save, but you normally walk away happy with what you got. Buyer's remorse cost you more than just money.

4) Less is really more
-I own a 1,600ft^2 house my parents own a 5,000ft^2 house, who do you think enjoys their weekends more as they have to clean less?

5) DIY except surgery
-A little research can show you how much you can do on your own. My $5000 bathroom job would have cost almost $20k if Iwould have hired it all out and I got exactly what I want. I do the grunt work and have someone do the skilled labor stuff.

6) Lower your monthly reoccuring costly items
-I ditched cable TV as all my shows I like are on HULU or netflix, which costs almost nothing compared to cable. Another ~$80 saved/month

7) Buy only what you can afford, within reason
-You need a roof over your head and in many cases a way to get from point A to B. Don't buy a boat on credit, unless your lively hood depends on it. Don't get sucked into CC dept as the intrest rates are much higher. If you have that itch, get something to distract you from it and you will see how you really didn't need it after all.

You and I are living a parallel life You don't happen to have some buddies who love to get sloshed on the weekend and then run around whining about how they are so poor? That's the problem with some of my friends around my age, some of them either don't understand how life works or are just waiting for handouts that will never come.

 

[korygrandy]

Re: We have Created a Nightmare in this Country

I agree here with a few exceptions where special equipment is needed or where weather won't permit. I actually just did my own brakes/new rotors on one of my SUV's having never done brakes before. I can tell you that nobody I know, literally not a single person would do their own brakes to save a couple hundred dollars. A couple neighbors happened to stop by while I was doing it and they were shocked to see me doing what I was doing. I think the fact that I own an impact gun has them scratching their heads.

There is a completely different mindset amongst certain types of people as to how to get wealth and how to handle it and how to act fiscally when you have it or don't have it. A silly example is the cable tv mentioned above. It would never dawn on me in 10 lifetimes to buy cable tv. I wouldn't buy even a $50 dollar package it's just not in my DNA to make the spending decisions so many take for granted.
As for the house situation mentioned above, I do disagree there. The house falls into the 'you live once category' and although our house is well over 5000 sq ft, it is much less stressful to live in a larger space than a smaller space with young boys. If you are a diyer, a large home isn't a big deal but does take a bit more cleaning and again we are the only ones around without a cleaning person. I think many people could be a heck of a lot wealthier if they really put their mind to it.

You should be living in Wayzata...what are you doing up north in Maple Grove with all the "middle class folk" LOL!

 

[DayCruiser]

Re: We have Created a Nightmare in this Country

I have direcTV mainly for College and Pro football. You have to have all these crappy channels just to get what you really want to watch. I just can't do without watching my favorite College football team and many of the games are on the off ESPN channels like EspnU or 2 or 3 etc that only DTV carries. Not much boating in the winter so what would I do without Pro football? The dish has me by the nads haha
I do use the internet to shop around and compare prices. I also google complaints about products and services a LOT before buying and using. I check out craigs list for bargains. Buy at flea markets sometimes

 

[JRJ]

Re: We have Created a Nightmare in this Country

As we bicycle ride around the hood, we see lots of moving in and out. It amazes us how many 3-car garages we see, filled so full of stuff, there isn't room for a car. Also the amount of junk people pay to move is incredible. Folks do become slaves to their possessions.
Stuff is easy to acquire, hard to get rid of, and if you don't use it, you don't need it.