weather guidelines

torcano

Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Feb 15, 2008
Messages
423
What weather parameters should be used in making a decison to venture out or stay at the dock? For example, are predictions of 1-2 foot seas with winds in the 10-15kt range reasonable parameters to take out a 24 foot cruiser by a relatively inexperienced boater? I plan to go into an open bay but not into the ocean. My previous experience in winds gusting to 20kts made it very hard for me to back into my slip. At what wind and sea levels do small craft advisories get issued? The forecast is for clear weather, just a little windy.
 

Chip73

Petty Officer 3rd Class
Joined
Mar 31, 2008
Messages
77
Re: weather guidelines

What weather parameters should be used in making a decison to venture out or stay at the dock? For example, are predictions of 1-2 foot seas with winds in the 10-15kt range reasonable parameters to take out a 24 foot cruiser by a relatively inexperienced boater? I plan to go into an open bay but not into the ocean. My previous experience in winds gusting to 20kts made it very hard for me to back into my slip. At what wind and sea levels do small craft advisories get issued? The forecast is for clear weather, just a little windy.
I will say that where I boat (ICW in GA) that kind of wind would not be good. It gets channeled into the sounds and the 1-2' seas on the ocean side become 3-4' where the wind channels into the sounds. The seas can get higher if the wind is fighting the current so check your wind directions and your tides. If it is blowing with the current it may not be bad but remember that the tides will change and could kick up the seas any minute. I learned this the hard way and went out when it was windy but it was with the current. When the current changed, the seas took a bad turn and I had to fight my way back to a dock that was moving up and down badly making docking near impossible.
 

Boatist

Rear Admiral
Joined
Apr 22, 2002
Messages
4,552
Re: weather guidelines

The Winds and Seas are different for every boat and crew. Crew experience makes a big difference. Type of boat also is a major factor.

I have a 21 Foot close bow Runabout and in general I do not launch if the Seas are over 8 feet or if the swell are closer together than 8 seconds. I have had my boat out in 9 foot seas every 6 seconds in the Pacific Qcean. It was Safe enough but not much fun so we came in early with only 3/4 of a limit. Another condition I try to avoid in the Pacific is a confused Sea where the Swells are going one way and the chop a different way. This happeneds when the normal winds change directions and have winds 30 knots or more. I think the most dangerous condition for my boat is a large following sea. While done right this can be a fun smooth ride in. The key is you need to ride the back of the swell but close enough to the top that you can see over the swell. This allows you to see boat coming out or rocks in your path. So if you do not stay on the top where your can see you may meet a boat coming out at the top of the wave. Wave travel about 20 Miles per hour and if you should go over the top you boat will surf down the face of the wave and bury the bow into the back of the next wave then the wave behind push the stern over the bow. This is call pitch pole and is deadly.
If you go too slow the wave behind will over take the stern and could fill the boat with water.

I think Small craft advisory will very from place to place. Out here it issued at 33 knots and up but can also be issued to hazardous seas.

You talked about harder to dock with 20 knot winds. This is always true more wind or cross current and it harder to control your boat and dock. With a single screw and strong winds or cross currents the docking has to be done with more speed to give you more boat control so the margin for error is smaller. Too slow and the wind will have more control than you do.

Another big factor is the water depth and current. Swells when going against the current will shorten up and put them closer together and more dangerous. Also when Swells come into shallow water the bottom of the wave will slow down and cause the wave to get steeper and break just like a wave comming to a beach. Some area will have a shallow water bar that causes very dangerous wave at low tide but at high tide has very little effect.

Out here the wind blows every day so we get lots of pratice with different types of seas. One thing that I think helps is to keep a log of every trip. Note the swell height and Wind and how well your boat handled the condition. It will not take long and you will know what your boat and Crew can handle.

I post a couple of links that may give you some information you can use. The first one is about warning flags. One thing on warning flags, they will post a small craft advisory because of forcast. I have fished many days when the small craft flag was flying and the water was very smooth and no wind. So listen to the Coast Guard weather report give at almost the same time every day. They will anounce on Channel 16 to switch to channel 22 for the marine Forcast.

http://www.weather.gov/os/marine/cwd.htm

The second one is the buoy I use to decide weather to launch or not. It is 12 miles off of Bodega Bay, North of San Francisco about 40 miles.

http://www.ndbc.noaa.gov/station_page.php?station=46013


Bodega Bay Weather today May 22 2008 I would not launch to go out into the Pacific Ocean.
Winds NW 320 degrees true @ 35 knots with Gust to 42.7, Water temperature 48.2 F
Seas 14.8 feet every 11 seconds, chop at 6.9 seconds, Wave Steepness = average.
 

torcano

Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Feb 15, 2008
Messages
423
Re: weather guidelines

Thanks Boatist. Your response was very helpful. I am going to take a look at the flag pole in my marina this morning. If the flag is flying straight out, I'll stay at the dock. Your response about needing more speed to dock in the wind was right on target. My normal docking speed is very slow. With 20 MPH gusts the wind clearly had more control than I had.
 

Woodnaut

Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Jul 4, 2007
Messages
634
Re: weather guidelines

Boatist has it right on all accounts. You probably already have a VHF/FM/Weather radio on board so be sure to check the NOAA weather channel every time before you head out. If you can, go online to noaa.gov and make your way to the buoy reports in your area. (See Boatist's link) There you will find real time wave height information. This is really useful info - not to mention addictive when you're sitting in the office at work during the week. The more you go out the more experience you will have - your judgement will build accordingly.

I have a 16' homebuilt runabout with a deep V that is fairly heavy so it rides well for such a small boat. (Honestly, I think it rides better than that old 21' Bayliner I had many years ago which was built more like a barge than than a boat.) If seas are 2' or less I have no reservations heading 30+ miles offshore. I've been offshore several times in substantially larger seas - and enjoy it - but I will not leave the dock and head offshore if wave heights are greater than 3'. There's still plenty of fun to be had in the bay. Enjoy your boat and remember - safety first! ;)
 

thurps

Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Jan 14, 2007
Messages
538
Re: weather guidelines

I always check the TWC 10 day forcast, the TWC hourly forcast, our local data bouy (46027) for current sea conditions and marine forcast. I also check Mobilegeographics for the tides because they affect launching conditions. All that said, I always watch the north for whitecaps meaning winds are comming. As for launching or docking your boat in your particular area, practice, practice, practice.
 

tommays

Admiral
Joined
Jul 4, 2004
Messages
6,768
Re: weather guidelines

I agree with the above BUT would advise you to slowly push your limits to get more comfortable with bad conditions ,as at least here the wind generally kicks up fast and is generally worse than the forecast
 

dingbat

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Nov 20, 2001
Messages
16,367
Re: weather guidelines

It all depends on where you boat. The swell conditions Boatist describes are a rarity on the east coast and are generally only associated with hurricanes passing hundreds of miles off the coast.

Around here the problems you have are the wave periods because of the direction of the prevailing winds and the shallowness of the water. It does not take much wind to cause problems if the winds are coming out of the East or if the winds are opposing the tide.

For example the Chesapeake Bay is oriented in a north south direction. In the summer the prevailing winds are out of the south and in the winter they are out of the NW. It?s these prevailing winds blowing against the flow of the tides that are responsible for the confused, beat you to death chop that the Chesapeake is famous for. Long Island Sound and most of the coastal Bays on the east coast for that matter sport the same confused sea conditions as well.

As far as warning signs, for me it?s mainly wind direction. From the forecast below you?ll see that they have issued small craft warnings for today with a NW 10-15 and waves of 1-3 feet and then again Saturday morning with generally the same conditions but with the winds coming from the north. But look at Tuesday. The winds are predicted to be the same as today but without small craft warnings. Why?.because a SW doesn?t influence the wave action nearly as much as the north or south winds.

Today would be very fishable for most of the western shore of the Bay because the land abates the effects of the winds for the most part. Even then there would be a notable difference in the wave patterns once the tide changes directions and runs into the oncoming winds. On the other hand the eastern shore of the Bay would be quite uncomfortable pretty much most of the day so it?s location, location, location in this case.

Saturday morning would be the day not to venture out. With the winds coming straight down the Bay and there is no place to hind. The water would be fishable on the out going but once the tide starts to turn it?s time to get out of dodge and in a hurry. It will get darn right nasty out there in a matter of minutes.

Your best beat is to do as Boatist said and keep track of the weather and how it relates to the conditions on the waters where you boat. The other word of advice I would give is to not assume that the forecast is going to be correct. If I had a dollar for every time they screwed up a marine forecast I?d been retired long ago. Every time you leave the dock be prepared for the worst and hope for the best. That way you?ll never be surprised by what you encounter.


CHESAPEAKE BAY FROM NORTH BEACH TO DRUM POINT-
CHESAPEAKE BAY FROM DRUM POINT TO SMITH POINT-
344 AM EDT FRI MAY 23 2008

...SMALL CRAFT ADVISORY NOW IN EFFECT FROM 9 AM EDT THIS MORNING
THROUGH THIS AFTERNOON...
...SMALL CRAFT ADVISORY IN EFFECT FROM SATURDAY MORNING THROUGH
SATURDAY AFTERNOON...

TODAY
NW WINDS 10 TO 15 KT WITH GUSTS UP TO 20 KT. WAVES 1 TO 3 FT.

TONIGHT
NW WINDS 10 TO 15 KT. WAVES 1 TO 2 FT.

SAT
N WINDS 10 TO 15 KT WITH GUSTS UP TO 20 KT. WAVES 2 TO 3 FT.

SAT NIGHT
N WINDS 10 TO 15 KT. WAVES 2 TO 3 FT.
 

torcano

Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Feb 15, 2008
Messages
423
Re: weather guidelines

Thanks for all the advice. I did go out today even with the flag flying straight out in 10-15 MPH winds with gusts to 20MPH. I felt I needed to learn how the boat handles in these conditions. The bay was very choppy which made fishing next to impossibile. The boat handled very well. Docking was difficult again but since I had another boater with me I was able to back into the slip without any mishaps. This would have been much more difficult by myself, and I would have stayed at the dock. As it turned out a boat capsized a few miles away from me at the exact time I was in the bay. They were in the ocean. There was a coast guard boat nearby and the three fisherman were luckily pulled out alive.
 
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