What would you do here? (boat buyers remorse)

[dirtyoldman]

A few months ago I bought an 87 sea ray s21 from an out of state seller. I couldn't put it in the water that day but bought it anyway. Seller told me it had no overheating issue and took on no water. It does both. The overheating issue was fixed with about $300 worth of parts and a few evenings messing with it. I had some other minor stuff that you'd expect from buying a used boat, but in investigating the water issue I discovered a rotted transom. It was rotted so badly that the fiberglass guy thought I was putting my family at risk to operate it the rest of the summer.

So, the repair for that is $2750. I paid $4200 for the boat. It still needs a new interior. I realize that I bought it and took the risk, but the seller had to misrepresent this to me. There's no way the transom rotted out since last boating season.

The fiberglass guy thinks I should call the seller and ask him to pay half the bill. The worst the guy can say is no. I have not called him at all since shortly after I bought the boat. He knows nothing about any of this.

So, would you call or just make sure to get a marine survbey next time?

 

[sbbamafan]

Re: What would you do here? (boat buyers remorse)

It is a shame you seemingly got hosed, however, as you said, that is the chance you take without performing the proper due diligence in any transaction. You did no sea trial, no testing, no survey. In short - you opened yourself up for this and - not to be cruel - kind of got what you deserved. I hate it for you, truthfully. As for him paying part of the repairs after 6 months, you'd have better luck whistling your favorite song with your butt cheeks.

Education is always expensive, either in a formal environment or through the 'hard knocks' program.

 

[dirtyoldman]

Re: What would you do here? (boat buyers remorse)

It is a shame you seemingly got hosed, however, as you said, that is the chance you take without performing the proper due diligence in any transaction. You did no sea trial, no testing, no survey. In short - you opened yourself up for this and - not to be cruel - kind of got what you deserved. I hate it for you, truthfully. As for him paying part of the repairs after 6 months, you'd have better luck whistling your favorite song with your butt cheeks.

Education is always expensive, either in a formal environment or through the 'hard knocks' program.

It's not six, it's two. I guess I was vague about a few. I bought it march 28.

 

[Fisherball]

Re: What would you do here? (boat buyers remorse)

PO probably knew of the problems, that's why he sold it. Give him a chance to help out but don't hold your breath waiting for a check.

 

[KermieB]

Re: What would you do here? (boat buyers remorse)

Does the term SOL mean anything?

 

[Fordiesel69]

Re: What would you do here? (boat buyers remorse)

I would call the guy anyways and start off polite and show him pics and papers, the use your verbal skills to push a little further. If still no success, it is not worth the time to pursue further. You bought a boat as is, and this is what can happen unfortunatly. I bleive you have no legal action at this point.

I have had this happen with cars, tractors, etc.... where the seller outright lied thru his teeth, or was so clueless he did not know of the problem even when he owned it.

 

[Fordiesel69]

Re: What would you do here? (boat buyers remorse)

Oh, and it does not all turn out bad. If you like the boat, you can rest easy knowing the transome was rebuilt.

 

[Mel Taylor]

Re: What would you do here? (boat buyers remorse)

I know how you feel and I don't know what to tell you, except that we all do dumb things some times. Case in point: I had an '85 Chevy that I used to tow my boat.

Good vehicle except the electric windows were extremely temperamental and it had almost 200,000 miles on it. A lot of those miles were hard, New Mexico, 4WD miles.

Perfect vehicle for fishing trips to Mexico though, because of low tech simplicity - almost any back woods Mexican mechanic could repair it.

I got newer truck fever and bought a '97 Ford from a private individual. Seemed like a helluva good deal. Didn't check it out thoroughly enough. First thing: New clutch within a month - around $800.00. Next: Leaky heater - over $400.00. Then: Blown head gasket, valve job and some other engine repairs - $2,100.00 all in the space of a year. I also suspect more mileage than the odometer shows. I still see my old '85 Chevy running around town and wish I had it back. Oh yeah, I saw the guy that sold me the Ford right after the clutch job. I mentioned the problem. He gave me a wide eyed innocent look and proclaimed that he had no idea of any problems.

I'll bet that you either get the same innocent treatment, or the "you bought it as is and now you own it - as is" routine if you ask him to pay for even a small part of the repairs. OTOH, it never hurts to ask. He might just be a nice guy and pony up something.

 

[kenmyfam]

Re: What would you do here? (boat buyers remorse)

Unless you bought it with an expressed warranty then you have no comeback whatsoever. Buyer beware and bought "as is where is" is the norm. If the seller sold it as "sound and seaworthy" then you have some comeback.

 

[Andy'sDelight]

Re: What would you do here? (boat buyers remorse)

I don't agree you "deserved" this as someone else implied, but it is the risk you take by not performing your due dilligence. This post should somehow be stickied and engrained in the heads of all people looking to buy their first boat without any or limited knowledge about boats. Nobody deserves to get screwed just because they don't know better. Boating is a romantic thing, and once someone gets the itch to do it they tend to make an impulsive decision. I know, because I did it as well. I got very lucky and ended up with a pristine old boat, however the engine was a disaster. I repowered it and have had nothing but good experiences since. I did know the engine was going to be an issue, I just didn't realize how much. Had I known at the time it would need to be repowered so soon I probably wouldn't have bought the boat at the time. But then again, who knows what I would have ended up with. It could have been alot worse, such as your case.

If you can't afford to throw money at it, perhaps give a look into the restoration threads and learn everything you can. If you're handy you might find it to be easy and certainly cheaper to do the work yourself. If you're not handy, you'll have a project that just might be perfect for learning on. Otherwise part it out and move on with a lesson learned.

 

[Utahboatnut]

Re: What would you do here? (boat buyers remorse)

A sea trial would have revealed the overheat problem and the water intrusion problem, at which time "I need to check this over a bit closer" should have been running through your mind. Where was the water coming in? near the transom? if so ALL of these problems could have been discovered in about an hours worth of running it. To buy a 20+ year old boat with no sea trial is rolling the dice, sounds like you just crapped out. The PO may not have even known the transom was shot, probably knew about other said problems but at this point can claim ignorance. Good luck if you do end up calling him, but I doubt he will be too receptive at this point.

 

[tractoman]

Re: What would you do here? (boat buyers remorse)

I'd call the PO and ask. You have nothing to lose. You asked about those two specific items and were told they were not a problem. When I bought my boat I was very thorough but forgot to check the master cylinder on the trailer. The brake system was shot. I sent an email to the PO and he apologized and sent a check for half of the repair cost. It covered all the parts and I did the work myself.

 

[BTMCB]

Re: What would you do here? (boat buyers remorse)

I'd call the PO and ask. You have nothing to lose. You asked about those two specific items and were told they were not a problem. When I bought my boat I was very thorough but forgot to check the master cylinder on the trailer. The brake system was shot. I sent an email to the PO and he apologized and sent a check for half of the repair cost. It covered all the parts and I did the work myself.

+1 on the above advice. You have nothing to lose by calling him and maybe, just maybe he will be a stand up guy and help make things right. If not, unless you have something writing, I agree with the SOL comment (respectfully, of course). Good luck and let us know what happens, especially if he steps to the plate.....it would be nice to know that there are some good guys out there!

 

[DayCruiser]

Re: What would you do here? (boat buyers remorse)

Check to see if your state has a "lemon" law

 

[capt sam]

Re: What would you do here? (boat buyers remorse)

Call the previous owner, don't email, call him. "As is" only applies when everything has be revealed, obviously this wasn't.

 

[RotaryRacer]

Re: What would you do here? (boat buyers remorse)

I had a similar experience last October. I bought a 1991 Larson just because I had to have a boat before winter....it wasn't really what I wanted and it wasn't in that great of cosmetic shape either....but I just had to get a boat before winter.

I looked it over very closely and noted a few condition issues. I checked everything you can check, compression, transom, stringers, floor, electrical, everything. I took it for a nice long trial run on the water before I made the decision to buy.

Two weeks after I bought it, I discovered that one side of the hull had some previous damage that had been covered by an ugly sticker someone stuck on the boat. I was just going to take the sticker off and clean up the boat and put on some nice stripes. I planned to use the boat this summer and then probably sell it. However, I also discovered that the damage had allowed water to get inside the hull (foam cored) and caused some pretty severe delamination. The one thing I didn't do is press on and prod every square inch of the hull to see if there were any soft spots. I wasn't really familiar with this particular hull design and construction method. There is an outer and inner layer of fiberglass and foam core between them...this is on the sides of the hull. Would a surveyor have found this? Probably. On a <$5k boat is a surveyor really "worth" it?...No I don't think so.

I contacted the guy I bought it from and sent him a detailed letter and really played up the "unsafe" aspect of it. He seemed to feel remorse, but just wouldn't do a thing for me. I sent the letter and then called and discussed it with him. We were both cordial and I think, had this guy not been in the middle of some financial issues, he may have been able/willing to help.

So, this thing was hanging around my neck all winter. I had no idea how or what I was going to do to make this boat safe again. This spring I took it to a local fiberglass shop and got a quote. It was in the ball park I expected.

With that I put it up for sale at a dollar amount less than I payed for it and noted it had issues. Interestingly I had interest right away.

I then took the advice of the guy at the shop and did a repair in a DIY/backwoods sort of fashion and I feel I was able to sell the boat in safe working condition and I only lost the amount I would have spent to have it repaired by the shop.

Honestly, in some cases just getting rid of a bad boat is better than letting it nickle and dime you.

Try to dump ths Sea Ray on craigslist for $2500 or less. Note that it has issues and let the potential buyers do their own inspection of the boat. Sell it AS IS.

My opinion is to just get rid of it. That way it isn't just hanging around your neck dragging you down. Take it as a lesson learned. I sure did with my experience.

 

[Home Cookin']

Re: What would you do here? (boat buyers remorse)

Lemon law only applies to new car purchases, and for repeated or unfixable problems. A used boat sale meets none of the three requirements.

It's very likely the previous owner did not see or know about that which you did not see or know about--a rotted transom. So don't assume he's a cheat, or even an idiot.

here's the law, generally, on "caveat emptor" (let the buyer beware) and fraud. The buyer is entirely responsible for knowing the product unless the seller actively does something to keep him from discovering a problem. Patching a serious leak with bubblegum and representing that there are no leaks; putting a layer of new glass over a rotted stringer. Or giving a false mechanic's report as to compression so the buyer won't check compression. But the seller can say nothing, and can make general statements of opinion--"a great family boat" or "runs like a top."

if the seller gives a specific warranty, he is responsible for that problem--but it might not be grounds to rescind the whole sale. Fro example, if he warrants "no leaks" he just has to fix the leaks.

Fraud, at law, is a seller (a) making a false statement (b) about an material matter, (c) that he knows is false, (d) that he knows the buyer will rely on, and (e)the buyer relies on it (f) to his detriment (or damage). In court, the BUYER has the burden of proving ALL SIX elements. Miss one and the buyer loses.

So if the seller knowingly lies about the transom but the boat is destroyed by an engine fire, no case. If he says it's a great transom and the buyer can't prove that the seller knew it wasn't, no case. If the seller knowingly lies about the engine, but the buyer says he's going to replace it anyway and is only interested in the hull, no case. If the seller lies about the transom but the buyer doesn't believe him, no case.

And every man is presumed to know the law.

 

[dirtyoldman]

Re: What would you do here? (boat buyers remorse)

I had a similar experience last October. I bought a 1991 Larson just because I had to have a boat before winter....it wasn't really what I wanted and it wasn't in that great of cosmetic shape either....but I just had to get a boat before winter.

Two weeks after I bought it, I discovered that one side of the hull had some previous damage that had been covered by an ugly sticker someone stuck on the boat. I was just going to take the sticker off and clean up the boat and put on some nice stripes. I planned to use the boat this summer and then probably sell it. However, I also discovered that the damage had allowed water to get inside the hull (foam cored) and caused some pretty severe delamination. At that I contacted the guy I bought it from and sent him a detailed letter and really played up the "unsafe" aspect of it. He seemed to feel remorse, but just wouldn't do a thing for me.

So, this thing was hanging around my neck all winter. I had no idea how or what I was going to do to make this boat safe again. This spring I took it to a local fiberglass shop and got a quote. It was in the ball park I expected.

With that I put it up for sale at a dollar amount less than I payed for it and noted it had issues. Interestingly I had interest right away.

I then took the advice of the guy at the shop and did a repair in a DIY/backwoods sort of fashion and I feel I was able to sell the boat in safe working condition and I only lost the amount I would have spent to have it repaired by the shop.

Honestly, in some cases just getting rid of a bad boat is better than letting it nickle and dime you.

Try to dump ths Sea Ray on craigslist for $2500 or less. That way it isn't just hanging around your neck dragging you down. Take it as a lesson learned. I sure did with my experience.

I took it in for fiberglass repair. If I had sold it for a $2k hit, I'll still have to buy another one at 5k to break even, and that's not too easy to do. This way I know it's in good shape and what's been done with it. It's supposed be done with the glass work tomorrow, and they inspected the floor and stringers and replaced the motor mounts. I should have it back on the water this weekend.

 

[Slip Away]

Re: What would you do here? (boat buyers remorse)

Lesson learned, hopefully....

 

[saxrulez]

Re: What would you do here? (boat buyers remorse)

I took it in for fiberglass repair. If I had sold it for a $2k hit, I'll still have to buy another one at 5k to break even, and that's not too easy to do. This way I know it's in good shape and what's been done with it. It's supposed be done with the glass work tomorrow, and they inspected the floor and stringers and replaced the motor mounts. I should have it back on the water this weekend.

I bought mine with a rotted transom and zero working knowledge on boats. I've definitely put in an easy 2k+ already into it, but its coming out fabulous and I know its safe and I know how everything works/comes together now.

Just a risk you take when you buy a boat without checking it out(I didn't know the transom was rotted on mine until after I bought it). Make it a fun project, fix it up, and end up with a great looking boat that you put a lot of hard work into. I already feel proud when I drive mine, and I still have lots left to do.

I paid 1500 for the boat, the engine is probably the only thing that was worth anything. All said and done, I'll probably have 4-5k into it(including the purchase of it), but I would rather have a boat that I put 4-5k into that I did all the work/restoration on, than a newer one that has probably been neglected anyways.