Whats to come???? Fuel issues.....

[Faztbullet]

Heard from a very reliable source that several engine makers are looking to go to pressurized fuel tanks with electric fuel pump built into them within the next year or so. These will be in the boat and very similar to a automobile tank. I was told that the reason behind this is ,fuel is actually being pulled apart by the high vacuum and filters in existing fuel systems and this aerates the fuel which is disastrous on certain DI engines. Rumor has it that Suzuki already offers a BIA/ABYC electric pump that is externally mounted and is being looked at by others. Rumor also has it that Vetus already makes this tank with a 1 psi bleed/popoff and is used in some of the newer FI ski boats......

 

[HT32BSX115]

Re: Whats to come???? Fuel issues.....

Howdy,

I think the reason to go to pressurized tanks might have more to with emissions than "fuel being pulled apart".

Todays gasolines are FAR less volatile than years past due EPA (and CARB) mandating lower vapor pressures to reduce emissions due to evaporation.

In the future we'll probably have boats sealed fuel systems, vapor recovery and a MIL (malfunction indicator lamp) that will come on when you have a loose fuel cap!!


Regards,


Rick

 

[mla2ofus]

Re: Whats to come???? Fuel issues.....

So does this mean my old '54 rude w/ pressurized tank is environmentally friendly? LOL!! And it also prevents the fuel being pulled apart.
Mike

 

[robert graham]

Re: Whats to come???? Fuel issues.....

I'd expect any changes to outboard fuel tanks and pumps might come at an evolutionary pace similar to the change from 2 stroke to 4 stroke outboards. Any any changes may be based on fuel evaporation and emissions, also known as the EPA!...just my guess!

 

[bassman284]

Re: Whats to come???? Fuel issues.....

I hate it when my fuel gets pulled apart.

 

[Faztbullet]

Re: Whats to come???? Fuel issues.....

The reason the fuel comes apart is it actually boils under a vacuum and this aerated mixture is deadly in a D/I engine. Ethanol blended fuel has reduced energy potential compared to plain gas, lower boiling point than gasoline, and readily mixes with water.E10 fuel purchased at the pump may contain up to 15% ethanol content! (I have seen 12% from customers boat with fuel purchased at Kroger with tester) Refineries may blend in ethanol to increase the octane rating to meet requirements and guidelines. So, regular gasoline may be refined to 84 octane, and then ethanol blended in to bring the octane rating to 87. Octane rating is a measure of how much pressure gasoline can be compressed before it spontaneously combusts. The higher the octane rating, the more pressure it can handle .When fuel is drawn/injected in to the combustion chamber, the spark should ignite the mixture. When the octane rating is too low, the fuel/air mixture may ignite before it is supposed to - causing detonation or pre-ignition(carb engines) Prolonged detonation can punch a hole in piston, contribute to overheating. Ethanol fuel also does not burn as well (why they use it to improve octane rating to begin with?), it does not burn as hot, and has less volatility. It has about 25% less potential energy than gasoline alone. This results in reduced power, reduced fuel mileage - about 3% less - (funny, ain't it? - Government wants to increase mileage and then says refiners can blend fuel that reduces it!! go figure.)

 

[HT32BSX115]

Re: Whats to come???? Fuel issues.....

Howdy,

The reason the fuel comes apart is it actually boils under a vacuum

All petroleum fuels will "boil under a vacuum"....it just depends on the vacuum and the temp.....

I have seen 12% from customers boat with fuel purchased at Kroger with tester

I am kinda interested in how you determined it was 12% vs 10% or less (you have your own lab or did you send it out? AND if it was, did you report them to the STATE? ( I don't think the refineries are authorized to exceed 10% yet and E15 is not authorized yet......I know they're talking about it)

It has about 25% less potential energy than gasoline alone. This results in reduced power, reduced fuel mileage - about 3% less

Any grade of gasoline has about 115,000-125,000 BTU energy per gallon.

Ethanol has about 76,000 BTU per gallon.

So if you mix 0.9 gallons of gasoline with 0.1 gal of Ethanol (to get 1 gallon)

(0.10) x 76,000 + (0.9) x 125,000

you get about 120,000 BTU in the mix. Or approx 4% less. (if the fuel is 115,000 btu/gal, it's "only" about a 3.3% drop)

If you're getting 4 MPG with your very efficient boat (I get 3mpg with my 454 powered 21ft boat)...... a 4% drop in mileage is a 0.16 mile per gallon DROP (I'm not sure I am worried about a 0.16 mpg drop in mileage.......for me it's a 0.12 MPG drop I guess. I cannot tell....
)


And if you build an new engine and increase the compression just a little, and advance the timing just a little you get it right back!

I donno. I don't really want to turn this into another E10 vs "regular" gas thread (because it's been argued and discussed over and over......)

But I think we doth worry too much about nothing!


Cheers,



Rick

 

[Faztbullet]

Re: Whats to come???? Fuel issues.....

But I think we doth worry too much about nothing!

Ask an owner of a Etech thats had his power head replaced lately.... dont think they will agree on that.

All petroleum fuels will "boil under a vacuum"....it just depends on the vacuum and the temp..

Yes they do and ethanol enhanced fuel have a lower boiling point than regular gasoline.....

am kinda interested in how you determined it was 12% vs 10% or less (you have your own lab or did you send it out? AND if it was, did you report them to the STATE?

It was tested with a $8 tester which I know it is not the most accurate but its pretty darn close. I have customers in bass clubs with testers that test fuel before tournaments and have found even 3-5% in non ethanol advertised fuels. I talked to our fuel supplier about this(Parman Oil) and was told this is due to cross contamination in trucks and varies weekly due to volumes pumped. Also the clubs report findings to Tenn weights and measures.....

Ethanol has about 76,000 BTU per gallon.

Which is 25% less than straight gasoline, post stated that ethanol fuel had less, not blended... also it states the same finding as 3% less power and fuel mileage.

 

[HT32BSX115]

Re: Whats to come???? Fuel issues.....

Ask an owner of a Etech thats had his power head replaced lately.... dont think they will agree on that.

He could "think whatever he wants. But if he can prove that 10% ethanol (E10) actually caused damage and BRP didn't cover it under warranty I would think he'd have a strong legal case. ........... doesn't BRP allow up to 10% ethanol in ETECS? (as does all the other manufacturers)............ AND if the fuel supplier pumped gasoline with more than 10% ethanol, they'd be liable too. A good lawyer would love a case like this because it has "class-action" possibilities.

Which is 25% less than straight gasoline, post stated that ethanol fuel had less, not blended... also it states the same finding as 3% less power and fuel mileage.

Your statement is noted. I didn't say you were wrong (actually 3.3% if the gasoline in question is 115,000 BTU fuel)

My point is that you cannot tell a 3% difference........ AND BRP and Evinrude (and most all current engine manufacturers) allow up to 10% ethanol use in their engines.


You can argue the pluses and minuses all day long (and it's been done here on this site and hundreds of others) ..... but the bottom line is we're stuck with E10.

You can get gas with no ethanol in it .............go to http://pure-gas.org/ to find stations in your state.

But you made an important point. The gas you get might be what they say it is......... and some states don't require their stations to indicate there's ethanol in the fuel! (KY to name one)

http://www.fuel-testers.com/state_guide_ethanol_laws.html

Granted, some states may have changed their laws since the above list was compiled. SO you'll have to check the current laws in your state.


I have used the stuff as long as it's been available here in Washington State. I have had NO fuel related problems in all those years and don't know anyone that has.........so I don't think you can make a "blanket" statement about the effects of ethanol fuel (E10)

E15 and above?........that's another story. the manufacturers are ADAMANT about ethanol levels NO HIGHER than 10% no question about it!







Cheers,


Rick

 

[pecheux]

Re: Whats to come???? Fuel issues.....

He could "think whatever he wants. But if he can prove that 10% ethanol (E10) actually caused damage and BRP didn't cover it under warranty I would think he'd have a strong legal case. ........... doesn't BRP allow up to 10% ethanol in ETECS? (as does all the other manufacturers)............ AND if the fuel supplier pumped gasoline with more than 10% ethanol, they'd be liable too. A good lawyer would love a case like this because it has "class-action" possibilities.


Cheers,


Rick

INHO ... A lucky man is one that can go true life without ever having the need of a lawer ... LOL Or that manages to stay away from them. LOL

Cheers

 

[nwcove]

Re: Whats to come???? Fuel issues.....

So does this mean my old '54 rude w/ pressurized tank is environmentally friendly? LOL!! And it also prevents the fuel being pulled apart.


Mike

there ya go! whats old is new!! guess my old pressure tanks were the right idea !! gotto love retro!