What's up with California

[JGREGORY]

Maybe I missed something somewhere but why is there all this recall stuff going on in CA.<br /><br />Is Gov. Davis that bad and did he get the state in the shape it's in on his own or did he have help from the legislature? <br /><br />California is becoming the laughing stock of the Country (good for us takes the pressure off of New Jersey). The one thing that worries me is that Jersey tries to mimic CA (we even did energy deregulation thats going to bites us on the a** this month). With my limited experience with politics (I may work for Government but that doesn't mean I understand them) I find it hard to believe that one man can screw up a state so bad that there would have to be a special election. Oh yeah, the last figure I heard was that it is going to cost you tax payers $65 million (thats Million with a M). <br /><br />I don't get it?

 

[catfish1]

Re: What's up with California

i dont know alot about politics either, but i do know that california has been screwed up for a long long time, thats why i moved to wv.

 

[Kilgore Trout]

Re: What's up with California

Former Govenor. blithering Iidiot and now Shwartzegger Advisor, Pete Wilson gave us deregulation. Bad Idea from the start. <br /><br />Grey Davis, faced with an contrived energy shortage panicked and signed California into long-term, over-priced contracts. <br /><br />The only thing Does well is pander and know how to run a great smear campaign.<br /><br />As far as the election goes, I never signed a petition for it to go on the ballot. We had an election last year, and with a small turn-out Davis barely won against a right-wing conservative. If the Republicans went with a moderate like Riodan, we wouldn't be going for a recall.<br /><br />The conservative element is now trying to torpedo Schwartzenegger because he is "no liberal" on some issues. Idiots.<br /><br />But this is democracy in action. Although funded by common criminal Darrel Issa, The recall was started as a grass roots movement. <br /><br />The best part is that people really do have a choice of more than two candidates.<br /><br />Beside all the crack-pots, there are some great candidates running that really have captured the publics imagination. I wish all elections were like this.<br /><br />Look for at least a 50% voter turnout. I'm voting for recall and Peter Ueberroth<br /><br />And don't even go into West Virgina politics. You guys have a governor that has his problems too.<br /><br />Besides, I used to Intern for Secretary of State (crook) AJ Manchin, and dated the daughter of the WV Attorney General for three years. I saw a lot.

 

[plywoody]

Re: What's up with California

Well, this recall drive started roughly one month following the recent election, which Davis won. This is not democracy in action--this is a subversion of the democratic process, in my opinion. It only takes something like 10% of those who voted in the last election to overthrow that election by a recall, and that ain't democracy, in my book.<br /><br />I am no fan of Davis. Wilson may have started the deregulation mess, but Davis could have adjusted it so it would not have been so catastrophic. He also knew that there were hard choices to make which would not make him very popular, like cutting some services, and he deferred them.<br /><br />Still, while California's budget mess is large, on a percapita basis it is roughly on a par with where more than half of the other states sit as well. Hardly reason to recall him, and anyone thinking this budget deficit was a big surprise simply was not paying attention.<br /><br />I like Uberoth (sp?) too, but in 2006

 

[Homerr]

Re: What's up with California

It won't be long...California will be as busted as we are in Oregon.<br /><br />They all move their crap up here!<br /><br />H.

 

[Kilgore Trout]

Re: What's up with California

I don't think it is a subversion of the democratic process. a subversion of the democratic process is a 10 percent voter turnout, like we had in the last election.<br /><br />While I disagree with the recall in principal, I never signed a petition. I am glad it is a ballot issue.<br /><br />Its a chance to correct a wrong. the last election we had 2 very week candidates, representing total opposite ends of the political spectrum. We now have some solid candidates (schwartzegger included) all of which would be good leaders, representing a cross section of the population. <br /><br />We also have people excited about the idea of being a rebell and throwing the bum out. <br /><br />Like I said: at least a 50% voter turnout

 

[Skinnywater]

Re: What's up with California

Govenor Davis has squandered close to 50 billion of the tax payers money. He's caused all of our utilities to be the most expensive in the country, now and for decades to come. All the way to the past elections he confirmed to the people that all was fine with the states economy. Within days after the election the truth came out just how much he'd squandered. He's caused this states credit rating to be just above junk bond status. <br /><br />So, don't deny the tax payers a measley 65 million of our own money, to have our say, to right a wrong and excercise our States Constitutional right.<br /><br />You can laugh at the media circus, the exployters of the process and even our stupid legislators. However, the citizens of California are taking this serious and aren't laughing. <br /><br />With 64% of the voters supporting a recall of Davis, it's certainly democracy in action. Not the subversion that the troll suggests.<br /> http://www.gallup.com/poll/releases/pr030813.asp <br /><br />Without mentioning any political party, California's government is a perfect example of tax and spenders at play.<br /><br />The blame can and should be put on one man, Mr. Davis, for he's approved every spending bill that crossed his desk.<br /><br />Yes Kilgore Trout, career politicians, I'm thinking they're all crooks too. <br />Arnold?, I'm not joining the bandwagon either.

 

[plywoody]

Re: What's up with California

Undoing an election simply because you did not like the result of the real election is not democracy.<br />Democracy does not guarantee the "best" candidate wins--it only guarantees that the one with the most votes from eligible voters wins. That my friend is Davis. <br />In any way you look at it, this is a subversion of democracy.<br />Davis has not been accused of any malfeasance, or any other crime but bad judgement. It is not grounds for a recall.

 

[Ralph 123]

Re: What's up with California

this is a subversion of democracy

A subversion of democracy is showing up at the state house with guns. Following a state law that has existed for decades IS DEMOCRACY IN ACTION. The people of CA have a chance to decide if Gravis will go or stay by voting in the special election.<br /><br />The people of CA were lied to by Davis, they found out the truth and now they are putting that law to work.<br /><br />I can't undestand why so called "liberals" have such a hard time with true free speech and democracy.

 

[miloman]

Re: What's up with California

if you havent figured it out there really is no democracy sure we go vote for a canadiate but the messages we see are paid for by allies or opponants. The issues at hand are really never resolved just painted a different colour. This california recall is a joke sorry. Once elected even with a small majority you won fair and square. What if Bush and Gore did this? I had a friend run in an election here and you know he lost not becasue the other guy was better, the other guy had more access to money and was a ble to put his face in front of the people It amazes me how people who have nothing but money and successful carreers give it up to to run for public office. As far as I am concerned all politicians are phony they lie cheat and decieve us all Sorry dont bash me its just a thought

 

[Ralph 123]

Re: What's up with California

What is the sense in passing a recall law if you can't use it?<br /><br />There is a recall law for the president. It's called impeechment. The rules are different but one still exists.<br /><br />If the people of CA don't like the law they can vote to keep Davis in and also vote to change the law.<br /><br />The law exists. It has existed for decades. The law is clear. It is being used. So what the proiblem besides you not perosnally liking the law? There are plent of laws I don't like but they still must be obeyed until changed.

 

[plywoody]

Re: What's up with California

I never said it was illegal. Only that it is a subversion of democracy. And potentially lead to chaos, as anyone with money can attempt to overturn any election (in California, at least)where they don't like the outcome. there are lots of people in California with lots of money.<br /><br />There have been lots of laws passed, especially recently, that have subverted democracy and freedom in this country. Most notably the "Patriot Act" They may be legal (until overturned by the courts, at least), but it does not make them right.<br /><br />It is of course why the ACLU is necessary.

 

[Ralph 123]

Re: What's up with California

Well the recall law has been on the books in CA since like the 20s. <br /><br />There are lots of people in CA with no money.<br /><br />Bottom line is that the people of CA get to decide and that is the definition of democracy.<br /><br />They also get to decide if the law remains.<br /><br />I suspect if Davis were a Republican you would not have a problem with it at all.<br /><br />All States should have a recall law like CA so when a lying, incompetent Governor is exposed he can be thrown out on his a$$<br /><br />The problem with most liberals is that they really don't like, or trust, the people. They want to treat them like chidlren. Tell them what to do and how to think and pay them an allowance.<br /><br />The ACLU? What a joke. They have become an ultra left wing organization hell bent on detroying this country. If the Devil exists and has an Army the ACLU is a part of it.<br /><br />They just got the Boy Scouts decalred a religious organization and thrown off a park in CA that was given to the city for them. A park they have taken care of and improved for decades. That's the ACLU you're proud of?

 

[12Footer]

Re: What's up with California

I live about as far East of Cali as one can get, and still wave an American flag without getting shot.<br />So I'm going to make the disclaimer at the onset, that what I know about California politics is limited. I heard scientist make the statement that Earthquakes will someday detach the state from the continent, a little worse for wear, at some time in the future. Being that California has had some pretty nasty experiances with qaukes in the renet past, perhaps the general Californian figures he/she has little time or anything else left to loose, but to drag the entire state down to an "equal" level of "YUK" for all Californians,instead of a select few. Again, I don't know. This is pure speculation on my part. But with the protests they suffer over important improvements to infrastructure in the name of "the environment", they didn't allow any nukes to be built, while at the same time, blew billions on windmill-powered generators that produce negligable amounts of juice, and ZERO juice if the wind aint blowing!!<br />I know, this sounds like a David Black rant. And sure, it's ironicly funny, but that's a fact I DO know.<br />Ok, so anyhoo, they got a bunch of elitists who can afford a 50% tax rate, but it does not explain "Gray-out" Davis. Well from what I read, he just made things worse by helping the decline along, if he wasn't busy doing absolutely nothing.<br />In a democracy , you get what the majority wants.<br />If this guy is waht California wanted, and still do, he would not be recalled, no matter what.<br />California has the same type/make/model of voting machines as Florida had...Can you say, "hanging Chads times 240 canidtes equals MAYHEM"?<br />This, I gotta see. I'm waiting with baited lines, to see what they do with that sticky tar pit they'll call "election". LOL

 

[Skinnywater]

Re: What's up with California

Undoing an election simply because you did not like the result of the real election is not democracy.<br />Democracy does not guarantee the "best" candidate wins--it only guarantees that the one with the most votes from eligible voters wins. <br />In any way you look at it, this is a subversion of democracy.

Again your in error. <br />Lawfully undoing an election by the people exercising their rights and by a majority outcome is most certainly democracy.<br />Even the most liberal states court in the nation has ruled this recall effort legal and fact.<br />Democracy doesn't guarantee the "best", it rarely does. However, democracy guarantees the people the opportunity to legally right wrongs, make corrections or adjustments. Democracy is a majority vote for the best or worst. It's also a majority vote to remove the best or worst!<br />This is elementary both in description, reference and meaning.<br /><br />It's important to bring to your attention that registered Democrats are in a strong 10% majority over registered Republicans in this state.<br /> http://www.ss.ca.gov/elections/ror/regstats_02-10-03.pdf <br /> It's a very safe bet that Davis will be recalled by both a large number of democrats and republicans. Again, remember that Davis will be recalled by "the people." And it'll be bipartisan!<br /><br />

"Davis has not been accused of any malfeasance, or any other crime but bad judgement. It is not grounds for a recall." <br />

Again this is elementary in description, reference and meaning. I'll add a pertinent example.<br /><br />Say as the governor of my home, I have placed it on the market for sale. The home was in good condition when I purchased it. A year after I moved in a water leak under the foundation appeared. My next door neighbor actually brought it to my attention. I knew it was there and even knew which pipe it was. Not only did I choose to ignore it, I actually turned up the water pressure! I was asked to disclose any problems to my realtor agent. However, I chose to keep it secret. Along comes a buyer, he likes the looks and location. The majority of his family love the home also and they buy. A few months after escrow the entire house collapses from the washed away foundation. The neighbor informs him that the problem was there for a few years and I even knew about it. I chose to keep it a secret because I really needed the money.<br />This would be a malfeasance, a fraud, a crime, and bad judgement.<br /><br />In addition you'll soon find that through pure democracy, the people, of this state are going to have the opportunity to legally wage justice. <br />This is a rare occurrence in todays world. <br />Instead of laughing or convoluting interpretations of democracy, you people in other states should take notice and applaud one of the rare instances of California appying common sense and justice.<br />I'm confidently optimistic that this process will make this state stronger. That future corrupt politicians will take notice and need not apply.<br />You may even want one day to deal with your own snakes and not have an opportunity to deal with them legally.<br /><br />Fraud <br />(n.) Deception deliberately practiced with a view to gaining an unlawful or unfair advantage; artifice by which the right or interest of another is injured; injurious stratagem; deceit; trick.<br />(n.) An intentional perversion of truth for the purpose of obtaining some valuable thing or promise from another.<br />(n.) A trap or snare.<br /><br />Democracy <br />(n.) Government by the people; a form of government in which the supreme power is retained and directly exercised by the people.<br />(n.) Government by popular representation; a form of government in which the supreme power is retained by the people, but is indirectly exercised through a system of representation and delegated authority periodically renewed; a constitutional representative government; a republic.<br />(n.) Collectively, the people, regarded as the source of government.<br />(n.) The principles and policy of the Democratic party, so called.<br /><br /> http://www.brainydictionary.com/words/fr/fraud166871.html

 

[ratltrap]

Re: What's up with California

Ahnold-the 'Republican' bringing Buffett(a huge Liberal)onto his team-Hmmmm,smells.Buffett, w/ in what,3 days of being selected,says the people of California need to pay more property taxes- Hmmmm,smells worse.Because,he says "He pays more in his home state of Nebraska.<br />Thats just the kind of thinking a liberal would have.They say the same about the cost of gas in,say,England,for example,is something like $5.oo/gal.-therefore,we to should pay the same,cause it ain't "Fair".BULL HOCKEY.I worked w/ a guy from 'cross the pond,and he said "The gov't. forces that upon them".<br />NOBODY WANTS to pay that much.Of course the price of oil has much to do w/ the countries it's coming from(OPEC).Lots more could be said,but thats for another time.<br />My point here is that there's alot of people pullin' for Arnold just because he's got an "R" beside his name and/or he's famous and/or his talk of going to Sacramento and "Cleaning house" has got alot of people saying 'yea that's our man'.I say beware,and if you're conservative you had best hope for somebody else to emerge from that large pack of governor wannabes.Much more I'd like to say,but maybe another time.<br />Hope the best for my fellow countrymen in the state of California.Just my $.02.

 

[JGREGORY]

Re: What's up with California

Skinny, I was not denying you state the right to spend the 65 million. Living in NJ we don't see what has led to the recall all we see is the media circus about the recall. <br /><br />At lest you have intitive & referendum we have been promised that for the last decade, politions have signed pledges to implement it, put the teachers union got a bug up their a** and buried it, There were other lobby groups that fought it but the NJEA was the biggest with the most clout.<br /><br />If Davis is that bad oust him, at that point the 65 million is money well spent playing the law of diminishing returns. What I was questioning was how can one man do this by himself. <br /><br />I know he has to approve final spending but if your legislature did not pass the bills to begin with were would you be. Also is your legislature of the same party as Davis? If so was he pressured into passing the legislation.<br /><br />I suppose what I'm wondering is if instead of just tossing Davis out you might be better off tossing the whole lot out.

 

[Ralph 123]

Re: What's up with California

It's simple. He knew about the looming deficit during his re-election campaign and lied about it to the people. He burried the truth. He also inititated all the spending and pandering to the special interest groups. He also caused the energy crisis in CA and subsequent prices via the deals he cut.

 

[plywoody]

Re: What's up with California

You are wrong about whether I would not oppose this if a republican was in there. I would oppose it even then.<br />I lived in Washington State at the time, and I knew about California's (as well as Oregon and Washington's) huge budget problems long before he was elected. Are Californians that stupid?<br /><br />This recall effort was initiated by a political foe of Davis roughly a month after the election, with a requirement of about 10% voters who voted in the last election all that would be required to get this recall on the ballot.<br /><br />Davis is, however, a terrible governor. No question about it. He inherited a deregulation scheme that had no chance of success, and he did not change it. They had a partially degregulated system that allowed wholesale power prices to fluctuate "with the market" while retail prices were fixed and regulated.<br /><br />When the power companies refused to pay more for electricity than they could sell it for, and were going to let the state go to dark rather than go broke (and some did indeed file for bankruptcy) Davis stepped up and signed long term energy contracts to insure the state had power, at whatever cost. All the while complaints to FERC fell on deaf ears. Until after the contracts were signed, and Enron's troubles were common knowledge, of course. The FERC stepped up and said maybe they were manipulating the market after all.<br /><br />These not only affected California, but the entire west coast.<br /><br />If Davis loses, the new governor is going to have to cut some spending (although in California, so many spending measures are the result of initiatives that he has not much control over anyway) and dramatically raise taxes.<br /><br />Good Luck.

 

[Ralph 123]

Re: What's up with California

Saddam had higher approval numbers before he was removed than Davis has now - this is no small rich group over throwing an election. This is 30M pissed-off people going for political blood.