Whats wrong with welding?

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13 BOXERS

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I have been looking at several posts on how to fix a leaking aluminum jon boat and it seems like most people rather use epoxy, jb weld or fiberglass instead of welding the hole or broken part.

whats wrong with welding???
 

JimS123

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Re: Whats wrong with welding?

Probably nothing wrong. My FIL had his damaged transom welded and it lasted for many years after that with no leaks. Probably stronger than before, but it looked like heck!!
 
Joined
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Re: Whats wrong with welding?

13,

Welcome to iboats.

There is nothing wrong with welding aluminum as long as you have the expertise and the equipment to do it. Most rebuilders on here don't so they go with the next best option.
 

CaptainSkip

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Re: Whats wrong with welding?

Welding would be the best fix. My guess is most people don't have access to a welder.
 

13 BOXERS

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Re: Whats wrong with welding?

I had a long debate with a friend that said he would never even get close to his 14ft jon boat with a torch, he said that once you weld aluminum it will later crack, I told him that can't be possible or else they wouldn't sell ALL WELDED boats, right?
 

rwidman

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Re: Whats wrong with welding?

I had a long debate with a friend that said he would never even get close to his 14ft jon boat with a torch, he said that once you weld aluminum it will later crack, I told him that can't be possible or else they wouldn't sell ALL WELDED boats, right?

The welded boat is produced in a factory under controlled conditions by experienced professional welders using the correct equipment and materials for the job.

A package of JB weld is under $5.00 and takes little skill or training to apply.

Unless you're repairing damage from a wreck or grounding, if the boat is leaking in one spot, it will probably start leaking in other spots pretty soon.
 

Isaacm1986

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Re: Whats wrong with welding?

I had a long debate with a friend that said he would never even get close to his 14ft jon boat with a torch, he said that once you weld aluminum it will later crack, I told him that can't be possible or else they wouldn't sell ALL WELDED boats, right?

You are correct. However welding aluminum is a lot different than welding steel. If the aluminum is not welded properly, it is a lot easier to put burn holes through it. At least this has been my experience with welding aluminum.
 

ondarvr

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Re: Whats wrong with welding?

There is no perfect solution, rivets come loose and leak and welded aluminum cracks, the thin AL used in small boats is very susceptible to it.

Using JB weld or some other type of glue, sealant or adhesive on a stress crack doesn't work out all that well either, because it cracked from being fatigued and weak, the stuff you cover the crack with is weaker than the aluminum was to start with so it will crack again soon.
 

eclark53520

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Re: Whats wrong with welding?

Welding aluminum is a very specific skill set that not many people have.

I have welded aluminum on a couple occasions but i'm not very good at it, the people that are good at it are few and far between.

Like was said before, JB weld is simple and cheap, while not quite as good it will work for most people's standards and the price difference is huge.
 

13 BOXERS

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Re: Whats wrong with welding?

ok, so if it was y'all boat which method would y'all use to fix it the JB weld or the REAL weld? (and if y'all had the means to do it)
 

81 Checkmate

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Re: Whats wrong with welding?

AS others will say, you need to have the proper equipment to weld on alum. I have been welding for the past 20yrs or so and Alum is a differnt animal alltogether. If you do decide to do this some things to keep in mind!

1. Do not try and stick weld !!!!!!
2. Tig weld only!
3. Could Mig weld if the right person was doing the job
4. The base metal must be very clean, Free of all crud ECT. Use acatone or simular to clean before striking an arc. Again must be very clean to weld ALUM.
5. Depending on location try and weld both sides to insure complete penatration.
6. After welding check for stress cracks, the heat from welding could cause this.

That would be a start and this can be done with a quaified welder doing it and should be as strong or stronger then the original metal.

One Other Note: Please Do Not Try To STICK WELD THIN ALUM MATERIAL. You will blow more holes in your Boat than you would like to have. Good luck on whatever you decide.
 

robert graham

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Re: Whats wrong with welding?

It depends if your leak is at a seam, a crack or a rivet, and how big is the leak. I have an old riveted aluminum canoe and I've used 3M Yellow Weatherstrip Adhesive on rivets or seam leaks and it dries tough and flexible and works fine for me. I've had some cracked ribs reinforced with aluminum angle by a professional welder and it's held up for years. If I had an actual structural crack in the hull then I'd have it welded and reinforced by a professional welder, because you can plug/patch a crack but it's going to get worse sooner or later. Good Luck!
 

13 BOXERS

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Re: Whats wrong with welding?

Thanks checkmate, next question... ANYONE SKILLED ENOUGH AROUND LAREDO TEXAS??? Im willing to drive to your shop if not too far.

Thanks guys.
 

81 Checkmate

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Re: Whats wrong with welding?

As stated above info. I think i could make the decison for you if we had some pics or more detail of what you want to do. Like:

1. Is the repair above the water line?
2. Below the water line?
3. Frame work or structure of the boat?
4. In the hull?
5. In the Transom area?

These details are what someone that would be charging you a fee $$$$$$ to weld it, would be asking.

I am no expert to Boating But i consider myself a very Qualified Welder. Just my Thoughts
 

Woodonglass

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Re: Whats wrong with welding?

81 Checkmate is spot on with his questions. Pics would be a GREAT help too! Check my signature to see how to post em. NOTE: Leave out Step #14 Do NOT remove the Attachments.

I'm just sayin...:D
 

lckstckn2smknbrls

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Re: Whats wrong with welding?

I had a 5" split seam tig welded. The guy knew his stuff only $10.00.
 

81 Checkmate

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Re: Whats wrong with welding?

Would like to help you out, but I live in Cincinnati, OH :mad:. I am sure you can find someone close to you. Ive seen alot of good welders come out of Texas. Just dont get ripped off by some poser that thinks he is a welder. As i always say there's Welders then there's WELDERS. If you do find someone ask him questions like some of the things we all have been talking about. Also if you have any more questions post them up and I and others surely will respond. Good Luck !!!!

P.S. Let us know how it turns out. :)
 

erikgreen

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Re: Whats wrong with welding?

As a (hobbyist) aluminum welder I can tell you why it's better/easier to repair most aluminum hulls with rivets/patches/JB weld.

Welding works well for attaching aluminum to aluminum provided the following conditions are met:

1) It's the right alloy of aluminum. Some aren't weldable with any strength, some do ok. The only way to tell what your boat is would be metallurgical analysis or finding the alloy name stamped on the boat. Marine aluminum is usually 5052, which is "ok" for welding. 6061 welds better but is more susceptible to corrosion.

2) It's post treated to restore strength. Welded (actually heated) aluminum is weaker than the surrounding metal, and usually harder, hence the cracking. This is NOT tempering like with steel. The process is called "artificial aging". Welded boat makers either use an alloy/thickness that's strong enough without the process or they post-treat the whole boat. You can't do this with a torch, FYI. You need an oven.

3) It's clean. Really clean, like acid etched. TIG welding with AC will push through the Al oxide surface, but you also need to pre-clean and sand the surface carefully, avoiding anything that will embed in the surface. Ideally use an acid bath to pickle the aluminum to make sure it's really clean.

4) You use a compatible/appropriate filler (you need to know the alloy, or use a generic "probably ok" filler

5) You use a heat sink to keep the majority of the aluminum cool. Al conducts heat very well, to the point where if you heat a block of it to near welding temps, the entire block heats to near welding temps. Worse, aluminum doesn't obviously change when heating like steel... it basically looks the same until it reaches its melting temp, then slumps into a pile of slag. You use a heat sink to localize the heat to the weld area.

6) It's a very good idea to pre-heat the weld area to aid the weld. You can do without it, but it makes things much easier.

7) Almost forgot - you have to have a relatively large welder. In order not to melt the entire boat you need to get heat built up fast in a small area. This requires a professional grade welder. My own 200 amp tig can weld aluminum up to about 1/8 inch easily (at the 200 amp setting). More than that and I risk melting everything trying to get it hot enough to weld. Plan on needing a 300 amp or bigger welder for boat work.

It should be obvious that it's not easy to do some of these on a boat... the heat sink and pre-heat in particular (you going to heat the whole boat?) but the killer is usually the cleaning part. If the weld isn't clean you're getting less strength than rivets by far. Cleaning a boat that has been used for a long time outdoors can be really, really hard. You end up grinding away a lot of metal, and the hull may not be thick enough for that.

All that said, it can work. But you have to have the right welding gear, a skilled welder who knows how to weld Al, who knows the proper steps to get a good joint, and you have to have a boat made of an aluminum that is strong enough to not break until the metal naturally re-gains strength (over at least several months up to years).

It's much easier/cheaper to repair it in other ways, especially since the welder could botch the job and melt more holes in the hull.

To repair an aluminum hull you can:

1) Rivet
2) Braze - most people don't want to do this because it looks ugly
3) Interior patch with epoxy/glue
4) High temp solder (with those "aluminum repair rods" you see on TV)
5) Replace the whole hull section and re-rivet at joints/seams.
6) Tighten the rivets and pound out the dents, then patch holes with JB weld or gluvit.
7) Weld


Erik
 

13 BOXERS

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Re: Whats wrong with welding?

ok, this is the boat: 14ft Alumacraft light jon boat.

The previous owner had already fixed the front with some paste (Im not sure what) and the ding on the side of the boat does not leak but it bothers me to see it there, I would like to patch those areas and re-paint the whole boat.
 

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Woodonglass

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Re: Whats wrong with welding?

This is just me, but if she were mine, I would use some Marine JB Weld on Both, do some detail sanding and feathering. Maybe give em a coat of Gluvit and then paint her. She'll look good as new. Looks to me like the PO just slapped on some JB and did not give a crap what it looked like. With a little bit of fairing you could blend that patch and make it almost invisible.

But hey, that's just me, and I haven't owned a tin boat in 30 years.

I'm just sayin...:D
 
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