Where can I find a list of parts that MUST be SAE J1171 approved?

[rs2k]

Where can I find a list of parts that MUST be SAE J1171 approved?

 

[Bt Doctur]

Re: Where can I find a list of parts that MUST be SAE J1171 approved?

Fuel hoses and pumps
Electric motors must be spark arrested
carbs (fuel vapors)

 

[rs2k]

Re: Where can I find a list of parts that MUST be SAE J1171 approved?

Do non carburetor throttle bodies have to be J1171?

 

[mylesm260]

Re: Where can I find a list of parts that MUST be SAE J1171 approved?

You just opened a huge can of worms.

This has been debated several times on this forum.

Are you asking if an automotive TBI unit can be used to replace a marine one?

If the part numbers are the same, than short answer, yes. Some will argue that not only must the part numbers be the same, but you must pay twice as much for it from a marine dealer.

 

[rs2k]

Re: Where can I find a list of parts that MUST be SAE J1171 approved?

I'm sorry, I have no intention of opening a can of worms. I'm just trying to figure out what items I have to be careful about. I would like to experiment with my own fuel injection system. I know the difference between SAE J1171 and non SAE J1171, I just don't know what items must have that certification.

For example, we all know ignition system and starters must be certified, but cylinder heads don't need the certification. We also know carbs need the certification, but we know that intake manifolds don't need it.

 

[mylesm260]

Re: Where can I find a list of parts that MUST be SAE J1171 approved?

IF memory serves, last time we had this debate..

THE USCG laws have not been updated for decades. They specifically mention carburetors, but have no mention whatsoever of any type of EFI.

I am actually running a 2001 Astro van 4.3 with the stock automotive EFI system. The EFI system was never used in a marine application.

The marine systems were either TBI, or true multipoint. I'm running the "poppit-valve" efi (For those who are familiar with it)

 

[rs2k]

Re: Where can I find a list of parts that MUST be SAE J1171 approved?

I'm running the "poppit-valve" efi (For those who are familiar with it)

Wow, I've never heard of poppet valve EFI. I will have to look that up. I'm only aware of Multiport and TBI

I am looking into adding a TBI EFI system on my boat. It is going to be a fun tinker around project. I am not a fan of carbs.

 

[mylesm260]

Re: Where can I find a list of parts that MUST be SAE J1171 approved?

It basically is multi-point EFI, but all (6) injectors are grouped together, and then there are small "hoses" that run to each intake runner.

It was a propriety GM idea that they used for a few years, instead of your typical bosch style multi-point injection system.

 

[rs2k]

Re: Where can I find a list of parts that MUST be SAE J1171 approved?

Was your whole engine from a van? Camshaft and all? Have you modified the fuel and spark tables? How What do you do about the lack of an O2 sensor? Did you delete that code in the ECM?

 

[mylesm260]

Re: Where can I find a list of parts that MUST be SAE J1171 approved?

Engine is complete from the van, only thing I've changed is the starter.

As far as the cam and ignition curve, the the marine and "truck" profiles are virtually identical already. They both have good bottom end and mid rage.

As far as the 02 sensors go, the Automotive ECU just switches to open loop mode. 75% of the cars on the road today are running with dead o2 sensors. They typically only last about 60,000 miles before they fail. And most people don't bother changing them.

Also, because the EFI system I'm using runs a Mass Air Flow sensor, the data from the 02 sensor is not very important, it is more or less only for emissions tuning. On a MAF based system, the purpose of the 02 sensor is only to fine tune the A/F ratio to optimize the effectiveness of the catalytic converter.

If my system was MAP only though, like a Honda, than loosing the o2 sensors would be much more damaging to performance.

 

[rs2k]

Re: Where can I find a list of parts that MUST be SAE J1171 approved?

I've thought about finding a MAF system, but I've heard they don't last very long in salt air.

I've come up with a way to install an O2 sensor, but I don't know how long it'd last in a marine system. I've been told that high quality heated O2 sensors should last quite a while.

 

[JJJ]

Re: Where can I find a list of parts that MUST be SAE J1171 approved?

Even using a MAP system, as long as the O2 is not hooked up (the computer will default to a 0.5 V reading) it won't hurt the running a whole lot. Might cost you a hair in fuel economy but doubt you would know it, after all the computer doesn't read the O2 during cold, or WOT in an auto. You will most likely be in open loop even with the O2, unless you fool the computer into thinking the engine temp is much higher than it really is.

IMO TBI isn't that much of an improvement over a good carb though, multiport yes but TBI not really. Other than the choke, you don't gain much and you have to run a higher fuel pressure.

 

[mylesm260]

Re: Where can I find a list of parts that MUST be SAE J1171 approved?

Running an o2 sensor on a boat is completely pointless unless you are talking emissions.

Adding an o2 would help emissions. And it also gives the ability to add a catalytic converter, which would help your emissions even more. Because the EPA is putting tougher exhaust restrictions on boats now, new boats will have o2 sensors and Cats.

While adding an o2 sensor to your EFI setup will in theory give you slightly better mileage, were talking about such a small difference that it's hardly worth it.

And, unless your using a 2010+ marine exhaust manifold and a 2010+ marine o2 sensor, I can almost guarantee you that your o2 sensor won't last 2 minutes, or give you any kind of reliable reading.


And what you said regarding map sensor based systems is true, even those without the o2 sensors right run just fine. I was just pointing out that between the two main types of EFI systems (Speed density VS Absolute Pressure) the MAP based systems rely much more on the O2 sensor for A/F ratio corrections.