why oh why....... what do i do?

JustJason

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Aug 27, 2007
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does a business customer of mine with a small fleet tell me my winterization prices are to high in october only to email me today, when its 10 degrees outside with a wind chill of -10, and with all the local dealers/part suppliers closed for the season, ask me to come out to winterize their boats.

Do I do the work or do I punt the business and the customer?

I know for a fact 2 of their motors have leaking gearcases. Which are probably frozen and busted. But they punted my estimate to fix them last year. and by some miraculous miracle, i filled the gearcases last year with oil and they made it through this season.

Typical small business. They don't take care of anything. Complain when stuff breaks and is expensive to repair. Etc etc...
 

rbh

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Re: why oh why....... what do i do?

If you go to winterize them now, and damage has already been done during the cold spell, how do you protect yourself/business against civil action in the future?
rob
 

tashasdaddy

Honorary Moderator Emeritus
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Re: why oh why....... what do i do?

for the right price. when they balk, say the October price was for the warmer weather. they are probably all shot by now anyway.
 

stevenj

Petty Officer 2nd Class
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Re: why oh why....... what do i do?

It is O.K. to fire a customer.
 

funk6294

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Apr 26, 2009
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Re: why oh why....... what do i do?

Its a little late for winterizing if it is already that cold out... I would be hesitant to accept the job as well because you maybe blamed for the damage that has already been caused because you would be the last person to have touched the boats. If you do opt to do it I would document the initial condition of everything and have it in writing prior to doing the work. All in all it sounds like there is a moderate amount of risk for you doing the work.
 

j_martin

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Sep 22, 2006
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Re: why oh why....... what do i do?

If you do it, CYA always and get the money in hand.
 

FBPirate95

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Re: why oh why....... what do i do?

I'm kind of torn on this one. I typically wind up being extremely loyal to a service company if they help me out in a bind. So that could help you out in the long run. Also, if you deny servicing them, their word of mouth negative comments could hurt your business. But in saying that, you definitely need to CYA if you take on the job. I would make them sign a waiver stating that they denied service in October, and you can not be held responsible for any damage that could have occurred. I would them make sure they pay up front.
 

ezbtr

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Re: why oh why....... what do i do?

yup, get a signed waiver.....
 

Bondo

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Re: why oh why....... what do i do?

does a business customer of mine with a small fleet tell me my winterization prices are to high in october only to email me today, when its 10 degrees outside with a wind chill of -10, and with all the local dealers/part suppliers closed for the season, ask me to come out to winterize their boats.

Do I do the work or do I punt the business and the customer?

Ayuh,... I'd offer to go over to access the condition of the fleet, listing the Busted Trash they have now,+ winterizing anything that's survived thus far...
At your Best, nasty, stay the 'ell home labor Price of course...

It might get you abit of work between now,+ spring start up,... Or not...

It sounds from the tone of your post, This customer may not be 1 of your Better, more Enjoyable chores,.. babysittin' 'em I mean...

Tough Call,... Either way, before I walked out the door, it would be understood that this ain't no Winterizations, pur se'.....
I gotta believe there's tons of Damage already Done....
Salvage Operation is what I'd post on the invoice.....;)
 

jay_merrill

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Re: why oh why....... what do i do?

yup, get a signed waiver.....

This.

And make sure you ad a charge for what you have to pay an attorney to make it as "bullet proof" as possible. Maing a few bucks from a job like this isn't a great situation, if it costs you a 100 timess as much after you get sued. Possibly an exaggeration on my part, but if there is anyone who will sue in a heartbeat, its the one's that complain about everything before you even do the job.



???
 

roscoe

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Oct 30, 2002
Messages
21,759
Re: why oh why....... what do i do?

Just show them the door. Tell them you are booked solid. Tell them you have a broken leg. Tell them you are going to Hawaii. Just don't do it.
 

ziggy

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Re: why oh why....... what do i do?

when its 10 degrees outside with a wind chill of -10, and with all the local dealers/part suppliers closed for the season, ask me to come out to winterize their boats.
what's left to winterize? it's 10* out. damage is done. i think their looking to use ya as a scapegoat come spring. therefor i'd not do it, regular customer or not. business practices have changed since this major recession has happened, and not for the better. it's a biz eat biz world now and i feel if ya do it, your reaching for the bait.
 

Fly Rod

Commander
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Oct 31, 2002
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Re: why oh why....... what do i do?

Take pictures of the leaking gear cases, inspect motors and if you decide to do the work have the owner sign a statement of motor conditions statement.

In reality if it were me I would refuse to do the work. I would rather lose one customer then to pay for two new motors.
 

JustJason

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Re: why oh why....... what do i do?

his motors are all OB's, this was what I wrote him for a reply. There's something in there about inflatables because he also has a RIB that he claims has lost pressure(duh... it's 10 degrees outside, of course it's going to look flat)

Hi Josh,
Just recieved your email, I don't check mine everyday this time of the year. I'm up at loon skiing for the weekend and won't be back in until Monday, and I will give you a ring when I get back in.

Honestly your a little late for winterizing. Here's some food for thought.

1. After 30 days (roughly depending on temp and humitity) untreated cylinder walls will start to rust. If the rust is light the motor will usually still start, but the compression rings are going to scrape the walls clean and ultimately the compression is going to go down. If it goes down to far the motor becomes unusable.
If the rust is medium and uneven, the motor will still start and blow the rust out as mentioned before. But the cylinder is going to wear itself "out of round". You will have serious compression problems, and if the motor runs at all they usually develop hot spots, detonate, and lock up in short order.
If the rust is to heavy, the motor will be locked solid and unusable.

2. Untreated ethanol fuel starts to spoil after 90 days, and is typically unusable after 180 days. Your milage may vary on this one as engines will still start and run come spring time, however old, untreated gasoline loses its octane rateing over time. Effectively the 87ron you pumped in in October becomes 70ron come springtime. You can have detonation problems with old untreated gasoline.

3. Inflatables naturally inflate and deflate with temperature (just like tire pressure). You need to set the pressure in the spring/summer when you plan on using it. And adjust it accordingly with temperature. In short, don't worry about it until spring.

4. If you have any water present inside of the lower units(drive units) the bearings and gears have already started to rust. The best you can do at this point is to repair any leaks, fill them with oil, and hope they last. Gears are usually a little tolerant to some light rust, but bearings will blow themselves apart at high speed even if they only have had a bit of surface rust.

I would need a list of all of the motors you have and what exactly you need done. My parts supplier is closed for the season and I would have to source what I don't have in stock non-locally. (which isn't much, because of the economy I didn't want to be sitting on a thousand bucks of all the sprays, oils, greases, filters, gaskets.. etc for the winter, I pretty much got what I needed along the way this past season.)

Best,




I sorta lied about being away skiing :) I wanted to get all of your opinions first before I wrote a real reply. Thanks for them all, and keep them coming. At this point i'm probably the most inclined to stick with Bondo's advice and call it a salvage operation.
This business has been hit and miss.
The original owner was fine and always paid COD. He sold and the new owner asked me if I could bill him and his office would cut me a check in 30 days. I agree'd to bill for the labor but any parts cost would have to be COD, cash or check, upon completion of work. He balked at first, and I told him quite frankly that's not how this business is done. When you bring your car to the mechanic you don't get the car back until everything is paid for, and it's no different with boats. Since the boat stays with you on the lake I am doing to a professional courtesy to let you bill me for any of it let alone parts and labor.
Either way, he's not one of my better customers. In the dozen times i've done work for this guy he had the cash/check for parts like half the time, and he is more like 6 weeks in getting me the labor check. Once he was late mailing me a check, and when I got it, it wasn't signed. I had to mail it back to him to get it signed then re-mailed to me. 2 more weeks on that deal.

At this point it's a punt or a COD only salvage operation at freeze my dupa off rates.
Thanks guys!!
JJ
 

bassman284

Commander
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Jun 24, 2006
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2,840
Re: why oh why....... what do i do?

Sounds to me like you're getting called because nobody else wants this turkey as a customer, either. I'd say no. Hate to say no to business, but some business just isn't worth having.
 

Vlad D Impeller

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Re: why oh why....... what do i do?

Sounds to me like you're getting called because nobody else wants this turkey as a customer, either. I'd say no. Hate to say no to business, but some business just isn't worth having.

Ditto. Some jobs are simply not worth the effort, this appears to be a perfect example.
 

tashasdaddy

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Re: why oh why....... what do i do?

i run a COD business, if unusual parts are need they are paid for when ordered.
 

Gary H NC

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Re: why oh why....... what do i do?

I think you gave a good reply to them.
Don't blame you a bit about not wanting to touch them.

I have had a few calls in the last month for winterizing..:rolleyes:
What are people thinking? After weeks of nights in the teens it's kinda too late.

I turned them down and told them if any damage was going to happen it did 2 months ago so i will be glad to come check them out come spring.
Sure don't want to be blamed and have to buy someone a new motor.
 

kenmyfam

Supreme Mariner
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Aug 10, 2006
Messages
14,392
Re: why oh why....... what do i do?

Leave it well alone.
If you really need the business then the terms and conditions must be tighter than a drum !!!
 
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