Winterizing.."ok" to change the oil/filter every other year, or best to chnge yearly?

[frantically relaxing]

Re: Winterizing.."ok" to change the oil/filter every other year, or best to chnge yea

Re: Winterizing.."ok" to change the oil/filter every other year, or best to chnge yea

EXPERIMENT TIME!

I went out and found that open can of Yamalube-- at a bare minimum it's at least 30 years old, and has been open at least 15 years, and probably closer to 20. It's rated "for service TC-W"-- no numbers following the W--

Now for the experiment-- pour some into a plastic cup--

It looked black coming out, so I coated the cup - sorry, the camera focused on the can behind the cup...

--- and now it's in the freezer for about 12 hours. Then I'll pull it to check for ice crystals. If any 'stored oil' was going to pick up ambient moisture from the air, it would be from THIS can...


FWIW, the Chevron oil I have is "API-SE", which means it was canned between 1971 and 1979. This Yamalube was bought somewhere in the same time period...

 

[slag]

Re: Winterizing.."ok" to change the oil/filter every other year, or best to chnge yea

Re: Winterizing.."ok" to change the oil/filter every other year, or best to chnge yea

I didn't change my oil last fall because I didn't use the boat that much last year. I didn't change it this spring either but will here on Sunday. Boat maintenance on a whole isn't cheap, whether you are talking time or money or both. Oil, lower unit, trim pump fluid, spark plugs, distributor caps and ignition wires, water separators, fuel filters, etc.. and every year or three, water pump impellers and bellows..

Sheesh.

I think I spend more time maintaining my boat than using it sometimes

At any rate, time to do the deed now that summer is officially over this weekend on September 22nd and its time to tune up the 4 wheeler, get the chainsaw out, get the leaf vac ready, and sow some grass seed.

 

[lakegeorge]

Re: Winterizing.."ok" to change the oil/filter every other year, or best to chnge yea

Re: Winterizing.."ok" to change the oil/filter every other year, or best to chnge yea

Frantically relaxing, I don't think 2 cycle oil is the same as engine oil as it's made to burn and your results may be skewed.

 

[jestor68]

Re: Winterizing.."ok" to change the oil/filter every other year, or best to chnge yea

Re: Winterizing.."ok" to change the oil/filter every other year, or best to chnge yea

It's not necessary to change engine oil before the recommended hour interval any more than it's necessary to change the water pump impeller every year.

 

[JimS123]

Re: Winterizing.."ok" to change the oil/filter every other year, or best to chnge yea

Re: Winterizing.."ok" to change the oil/filter every other year, or best to chnge yea

My boat is just finishing its 30th season. On average I put on about 40 running hours per year. When its not in the water, its in a dry garage, with a cover on to boot. For the first 15 years I changed the oil every year. I always do the tractor, lawn mowers, rototiller, 3 boats and snowblower at the same time, and then take the used oil to the garage that services my cars for recycling. Every year I look at the drained oil and find it to be clear golden amber and looks like it came out of the bottle. I also have a classic car that gets maybe 100 miles per year and I always changed that annually as well.

One year as I handed the used oil to the kid mechanic in the shop, he asked me which bottle were from the car and I/0 boat. That;s when I found out that he was "recycling" them in his own car and boat rather than into the recycle tank.

For the last 15 years I have been chaning the oil on a 24 month basis.

Now, on the subject of fuel filters, I used to follow the owners manual for frequency on that as well. Each time I would cut them open to see how dirty they were. There was never any dirt. Looked like the new one. I now double up on that as well.

Its not a matter of money. If I was having adealer do the work anyway, I would do it. But sionce I do it myself the time saved is priceless.

If My engine craps out soon I'll let everybody know.

 

[Jasoniboat]

Re: Winterizing.."ok" to change the oil/filter every other year, or best to chnge yea

Re: Winterizing.."ok" to change the oil/filter every other year, or best to chnge yea

Thanks for the feedback, everyone !!

I think I will go with the changing the oil and filters. I guess part of the reason I asked the question is that, so far I have had the mechanic do it for me... and obviously adds extra cost to the winterizing.. I know I should probably be changing my own oil and probably winterizing the boat myself. The first year I tried, I couldn't get the oil filter off, which is located in a difficult to reach area and I thought I would let the pros handle it. I tried changing the fuel filter and my fuel filter wrench almost tore the filter.

I have to admit, I am a fairly handy person... but I have this fear that somehow I am going to screw up the engine somehow and so I have left it to the mechanic to handle these things. I keep a notebook of paperwork showing continued maintenance on the boat. Probably could save some money doing it all myself, but life is busy in the fall.

I appreciate the feedback on the Spark plugs. Those are probably due to be changed, as I have owned the boat 3 seasons and I don't believe I have changed them.

 

[jestor68]

Re: Winterizing.."ok" to change the oil/filter every other year, or best to chnge yea

Re: Winterizing.."ok" to change the oil/filter every other year, or best to chnge yea

Consider this:

Following what's becoming a standard practice with big trucks, I stated using a premium quality synthetic oil and changing the filter and topping off the oil(one quart) every 60 hours. By the time I do this five times, I'm at 300 hours and have effectively changed 5 quarts of oil.

I never "drain" the oil, and it never appears "dirty" when I remove the filter or check the oil.

I should add that in my 1996 Mercruiser motor, I have never had to add any oil, and so far it has lost 10 pounds of compression.

I use Mobil 1 extended performance in all my vehicles, including the boat(s).

If you use quality platinum spark plugs, they'll last 10-15 years on average. I checked the 1996 plugs this year, and they were still gaped perfectly.

 

[frantically relaxing]

Re: Winterizing.."ok" to change the oil/filter every other year, or best to chnge yea

Re: Winterizing.."ok" to change the oil/filter every other year, or best to chnge yea

Frantically relaxing, I don't think 2 cycle oil is the same as engine oil as it's made to burn and your results may be skewed.

The main difference between 2-stroke oil and regular oil is ash content. That shouldn't have any bearing on its water absorbing abilities, or lack thereof--

that said, the oil spent 12-1/2 hours in a 0? freezer. Very thick viscosity, the stuff would barely move even when I held the cup upside down. Thick enough too, to 'freeze' air bubbles in the oil in place. BUT-- if there was ANY bit of water in the oil, it would've frozen and floated up to the surface and been clearly visible as ice crystals.

I found no ice crystals:

-----------------------------

Now, while this may not prove oil IN USE will or will not absorb water, I'm pretty much satisfied with the fact that oil WILL NOT absorb water just sitting on a shelf- or in an oil filter, or an oil pan...

 

[duped]

Re: Winterizing.."ok" to change the oil/filter every other year, or best to chnge yea

Re: Winterizing.."ok" to change the oil/filter every other year, or best to chnge yea

30 dollar, 30 minute process. I'd rather have cheap, clean dino oil than 2 year old junk that's well on its way to sludgeville. Oil sitting on a shelf in a dry, temp controlled garage is much different than oil in a steel pan that is subject to constant temperature change (condensation), not to mention the humidity of a bilge in general. Although I get where you are going, add in the acids and deposits from running the engine and I think its safe to say a test on oil from a can isn't really a scientific judgement on this subject. The question is not leaving clean oil in an engine for two years, but used oil that is already contaminated.

Side note. I had an Oldsmobile 455 engine rebuilt. Had it stored with new oil, and it turned into cheesy sludge crap just from sitting for a year. Had to pull the pan and intake and do some major cleaning. Some brands of oil do not store well. Pennzoil and Quaker State come to mind as known offenders. Not worth the risk. Even decent oil is cheap. Sleep better with new oil. If you ( OP ) consider yourself handy, suck it up and give it a go.

 

[ricohman]

Re: Winterizing.."ok" to change the oil/filter every other year, or best to chnge yea

Re: Winterizing.."ok" to change the oil/filter every other year, or best to chnge yea

The main difference between 2-stroke oil and regular oil is ash content. That shouldn't have any bearing on its water absorbing abilities, or lack thereof--

that said, the oil spent 12-1/2 hours in a 0? freezer. Very thick viscosity, the stuff would barely move even when I held the cup upside down. Thick enough too, to 'freeze' air bubbles in the oil in place. BUT-- if there was ANY bit of water in the oil, it would've frozen and floated up to the surface and been clearly visible as ice crystals.

I found no ice crystals:

-----------------------------

Now, while this may not prove oil IN USE will or will not absorb water, I'm pretty much satisfied with the fact that oil WILL NOT absorb water just sitting on a shelf- or in an oil filter, or an oil pan...

I don't know what your doing but all you have to do is let the oil sit for a few hours and you will see the water at the bottom of the cup.
No need to try and freeze it. When we drain the diffs on sunken trucks we just let'm sit overnight and watch the water pour out when we pull the plug. Then screw the plug back in when the oil starts to come out.

 

[moosehead]

Re: Winterizing.."ok" to change the oil/filter every other year, or best to chnge yea

Re: Winterizing.."ok" to change the oil/filter every other year, or best to chnge yea

^FR, you may have proved the thesis that oil doesn't absorb water, or that the Mountain West is arid, or that your garage is both dry and perhaps an archive of ancient things in open containers.

However, since water and condensation can and does intrude a marine block, hose, oring, filter, tank or pump, I'll keep changing oils and filters in my watercraft prior to winter storage.

 

[ricohman]

Re: Winterizing.."ok" to change the oil/filter every other year, or best to chnge yea

Re: Winterizing.."ok" to change the oil/filter every other year, or best to chnge yea

Oil doesn't absorb water.
But oil can hold moisture and combustion by products in suspension as its designed to. When you get a real milkshake of motor oil you can let it sit a loooong time and the water never really settles out.
That said, when you have trace amounts of moisture in the oil, and it will have trace amounts even after a short while, this moisture will sit there all winter. And I don't want moisture next to my crank for 9 months. Not when its worth a $20 jug of oil and ten minutes of time.
But as a mechanic, I'm anal about my engines. I've rebuilt many dozens of motors and I've seen what happens to motors, trans and diffs in long term storage.
Your experience may vary.

 

[frantically relaxing]

Re: Winterizing.."ok" to change the oil/filter every other year, or best to chnge yea

Re: Winterizing.."ok" to change the oil/filter every other year, or best to chnge yea

I don't know what your doing but all you have to do is let the oil sit for a few hours and you will see the water at the bottom of the cup.
No need to try and freeze it. When we drain the diffs on sunken trucks we just let'm sit overnight and watch the water pour out when we pull the plug. Then screw the plug back in when the oil starts to come out.

And if you take some of that oil and freeze it, I'll bet a buck you'll find ice crystals. I learned this trick checking gear oil in the outdrive on our old Sun Runner. Oil looked perfectly fine, but the top of a small cup of it after sitting in the freezer a few hours looked like a mini winter-wonderland.

As for condensation in an engine block... <edit> dingbat below is totally correct, thermodynamics is NOT one of my strong suits-- but admitting I'm wrong and doing a little research to learn why IS- Sometimes what seems logical isn't- as in, it may seem like heating air would remove water, but the opposite is true; heating air increases its ability to hold moisture- which I knew. I also knew that air can be dried by desiccants, or by COOLING it and collecting the condensation. What I didn't know is that air can't be dried by heating it. I'm still reading up, very interesting...

 

[dingbat]

Re: Winterizing.."ok" to change the oil/filter every other year, or best to chnge yea

Re: Winterizing.."ok" to change the oil/filter every other year, or best to chnge yea

And if you take some of that oil and freeze it, I'll bet a buck you'll find ice crystals. I learned this trick checking gear oil in the outdrive on our old Sun Runner. Oil looked perfectly fine, but the top of a small cup of it after sitting in the freezer a few hours looked like a mini winter-wonderland.

As for condensation in an engine block... An engine crankcase is nearly air tight. And an engine sitting in a dead-air environment, such as a boat's engine room, has nearly zero chance of its crankcase air ever changing places with any nearby humid ambient air. And since engines get plenty hot inside, any humidity that's in the crankcase air simply evaporates and is drawn into the combustion chambers via the PCV valve. Crankcase air is dry air, nothing to condensate.

Oh, my...... apparently thermodynamics isn't one of his strengths.:facepalm:

 

[Chris1956]

Re: Winterizing.."ok" to change the oil/filter every other year, or best to chnge yea

Re: Winterizing.."ok" to change the oil/filter every other year, or best to chnge yea

Gee, 4 cycle motor crankcases are vented. They have to be or the up/down movement of the pistons and any blow-by would cause pressure/vacuum. The PCV valve draws air thru the crankcase to burn any blow-by vapors. So you are pulling moisture-laden air from the bilge into the motor's crankcase all the time. Since the oil is hotter than 212*F you do not have any moisture in the oil, when the engine is running, but there could be some moisture in the oil after shutdown.

On another subject, I understand Jestor's reasoning, but he is assuming that the engine is burning the synthetic oil and dirt (acid and combustion products) in a linear fashion. Not sure that is correct.

 

[moosehead]

Re: Winterizing.."ok" to change the oil/filter every other year, or best to chnge yea

Re: Winterizing.."ok" to change the oil/filter every other year, or best to chnge yea

It is a bit shocking how many iboats members in this thread aren't using regular or seasonal oil change and filter intervals. Do you guys have similar views towards preventative maintenance and care of ps systems, fuel pumps, engine compression, impellars, spark plugs, sterndrive fluids, o-rings and gaskets, throttle and sterring cables, canvas, thru hull fitments, electrical and battery systems, bellows, spark arrestors, bilge blowers and pumps, running lights, gelcoat care, props and prop shaft lube & seals, exhaust systems, trailer bearings/tires/bunks/couplers/tiedowns, etc. Just asking.

 

[pckeen]

Re: Winterizing.."ok" to change the oil/filter every other year, or best to chnge yea

Re: Winterizing.."ok" to change the oil/filter every other year, or best to chnge yea

I just have one thing to say about this.

 

[geneseo1911]

Re: Winterizing.."ok" to change the oil/filter every other year, or best to chnge yea

Re: Winterizing.."ok" to change the oil/filter every other year, or best to chnge yea

I don't have a lot to add, except a recent observation. I have a forklift with a gasoline engine. My plan was to change the oil every 100 hrs, but it takes a couple years to get to that point, and it almost never runs Nov-Mar. This spring, the lift cylinder blew out, so it didn't run for a couple months until we fixed it. Once we got it back up, I noticed the oil pressure seemed a little low, so I shut it off and checked it...the dipstick tube looked like someone had poured a milkshake down it. Now, this machine never sits outside; any moisture in the oil comes from the engine itself or condensation. We don't check the oil that often, so I don't know if this was an issue from sitting over the winter, or over the summer, or just an incremental thing that crept up over the last 2.5 years.

Thankfully, the oil in the crankcase didn't look nearly as bad. I suspect the water vapor was burning out of the hot oil and condensing the the dip tube, but in any case, a bunch of water got into the crankcase somehow. The oil pressure was 5-7psi lower than usual, too, so even though the oil coming out looked okay (as in black like used oil, not brown and frothy), I bet sending it in for analysis would show a bunch of water. In hindsight I wish I had.

On another note, I only put 8 hours on my boat engine last year due to Dad's accident, so I didn't change the oil last year, and I only ran half a summer this year (transom project) and racked up about 40 hours. I had no problems. I will be changing the oil this fall, even though it still looks like new.