Wish the good old days were at my house

SS MAYFLOAT · Oct 27, 2003

Last night my 17 yr old got in my face big time. It all started with change being stolen out of my wifes study, and out of our bedroom. We put a lock on her study to keep him out, but he just busted the door even more than it was. She finds things moved around and he denies it. He stays at home and does his school work via computer. Makes better grades here than he did at school. At school he was always in trouble, no homework, disruptive in class, fighting, and getting into the teachers faces. That is the main reason I took him out. Since he was the only one home, no visitors, it was easily to assume he was the only one that could have stole the change. So I added 25$ to his loan account that I have set up for him. He got mad, and mad fast. Wanted to kick my butt. We were nose to nose, and I almost went off on him. This happened with my dad and me years ago when I was a teen. Just one punch from him made me have the repect of my dad that he deserved. It changed my attitude for him until he passed away. I was glad the incident happened because it really showed me he wasn't going to put up with any of my crap. Now my son is doing the same to me. I can't do to him what my dad did to me. At a point that I just don't want him around. What would happen if I told him to finish his courses and get his diploma and sent him on his way? I want him to have his diploma no matter what. He wants to leave, but I would still be responsible for him. I don't want to go to jail because of his stupid actions. I would think if he graduated/diploma, and left the house that I wouldn't be responsible for him. The laws on this I am not sure about. I don't want to fight. I'am not the fighting type. I was raised that any fool can fight, but it takes a smart man to stay out of one. This rule has worked for me for 40 years. Grounding, standing my ground, pusnishment, taking things away does not work with him. He just finds something else to do to compensate the punishment. He was grounded for one whole year and didn't bother him one bit. At my wits end.......SS (gotta go to work now)

SpinnerBait_Nut · Oct 27, 2003

Re: Wish the good old days were at my house

SS, I feel for you, I really do cause you are in a tuff spot for sure. In Ky., we are responsible for them till they reach the age of 18. Don't matter if they live at home or not and I don't know what the law is in Ohio, but be careful about discipline anymore although I had a sheriff tell my youngest in her rebellious years that, yes, mommy could still whoop her if need be and if she wanted for him to come back, mommy would not have to worry cause he would take her with him. Man, he put the fear of god in her that day some 3 year ago and she was a whole new girl after that. Don't know if that would work with your situation or not, but might not hurt to talk to one of the deputies to see if he could have a "TALK" with junior. Good luck SS.

Columbia · Oct 27, 2003

Re: Wish the good old days were at my house

Just one guy's opinion here. I don't think there's much harder than loving a kid, wanting the best for them, and having them be 'difficult' as they struggle for their independence. Nonetheless, you have to have rules and stick by them. If the kid misbehaves in one way or another there has to be consequences. It's better if they are laid out in advance. The answer then is, "you did (this or that), the consequence is....as we discussed before." A kid should not be breaking doors and invading someone else's privacy. Especially not without repairing the door or paying for the repair at the bare minimum. Perhaps this kid is home alone too much. Does the kid have opportunities to earn money, part time job or something? It's a tough, tough spot to be in. At some point a kid leaves home and it's a heartbreak when it's rough, especially in these uncertain times with so many bad things for a kid to get into. You have my sympathy.

tylerin · Oct 28, 2003

Re: Wish the good old days were at my house

My father ia a West Point graduate,30 years in the service,retired Col. I was as wild as a hyena, and he laid the wood to me. Today they would call it abuse, back then it was discipline. I tell you what, I love that man, because he mixed it up with alot of love and support. I'm exactly like him,but my son is as passive as can be. Spanked him only once( ran out into the street). Kids are like snowflakes, some need a whooping some don't. If your looking to have your son's respect forever, take charge today or he won't respect you tomorrow, but mix it up w/ love and kindness. I would have kicked his butt if I had to but I never had too, so I adapted. You don't want to kick his butt, but I think you have to adapt. There's only room for one Alpha in a house and thats YOU. Don't forget to mix it up w/ love and support

ehenry · Oct 28, 2003

Re: Wish the good old days were at my house

I only confronted my daddy once. I found myself picking my butt up off the ground. If you let your son run over you you've lost him. If he wants to ge physical with you let him take his best shot. Its at that point he's stepped in to your world as a man, then take him outside and knock the taste right out of his mouth. If he gets up and comes back at you do it again.....I promise you, later in life he'll thank you for it. I'm 45 years old. If I,today, did something my daddy thought I needed whoopin for I'd let him give me one. THats the type respect I have for my daddy.

Topmason · Oct 28, 2003

Re: Wish the good old days were at my house

I can't do to him what my dad did to me.

Why not? Involving the law would be his second biggest mistake, after standin toe to toe with Dad being his first.

TexSkeeter150 · Oct 28, 2003

Re: Wish the good old days were at my house

MAYFLOAT, I feel for you, what a tough situation you have at the moment. One wrong move and you could loose you son forever. Sometimes all these teenagers want is to be treated like and adult (even though they are not and do not act like one). Have you tried to sit down and have a talk about the things that are bothering you? In turn he could let you know the same with him. At this point you might be able to find common ground and discuss the ways to fix these problems. You then could lay down the rules again and both agree to them along with the consequences of these actions. This young man just wants to be treated like an adult, maybe bending toward that directions might help. Then if this does not work, it might be time to open up and adult 6-pack of woop-*** on him. I would try everything first before this step. I wish you luck in whatever you do. Scares me to death, only 14 more years and I will be doing the same with my little Joshua.

rogerwa · Oct 28, 2003

Re: Wish the good old days were at my house

I have a girl and three boys, all ten and under. But one thing I have learned through the trials of parenthood and my experiences on the job is that the stuff that works on little people also works on the big people (and the other way around). No silver bullet here, just some things to think about in your approach.. - Its your house and your rules. When he has a job and his own money, he can have his own house and his own rules. Take it or leave it. His decision. - Incent the right behavior, which in this case means that the praise for what he does right is just as important as scolding for what he does wrong. - Make his actions,his own choice. Always frame the options and explain the impacts of his decision. But in the end he has control of his life and also is responsible for the outcome. He needs to have some skin in the game.. - AS mentioned before, talk to him to understand what he is going through. Ask him, "How can I help you to ***..." Be supportive without breaking the above guidelines. Just remember, a single confrontation whether it is a fight or an argument will not solve the problems. A consistent structured loving enviroment based on personal accountability may be the ticket.. Just my .02.. Good luck.

NOSLEEP · Oct 28, 2003

Re: Wish the good old days were at my house

Excellent advice rogerwa.

Ralph 123 · Oct 28, 2003

Re: Wish the good old days were at my house

There's only room for one Alpha in a house

Very insightful tylerin ... Very insightful A lot of household issues come down to that when you start to think about it don't they? Ok, for my 2 cents: Seek first to understand then to be understood. What do I mean? You have to first understand what is going on with him. He clearly has issues but why? Why the fights in school? Why the issues with teachers? Why is he stealing from you? What is driving him? Once you have a good sense of that by making an honest effort to understand what is going on inside his head, you'll be on your way to a solution, IMHO. If you can't get to it on your own seek professional help.

SeaMasterZ@aol.com · Oct 28, 2003

Re: Wish the good old days were at my house

The hardest thing to do is to punish someone you love, but it is imperative that you understand that the punishment YOU give him today is the punishment that society WONT be giving him tomorrow ... Johnny Law doesnt spank, doesnt punch, he sprays pepper, bashes with nightsticks ... and blasts holes with a 9 mm gun I would rather have my kid wear the bruise of my fist than visit a grave just my two cents good luck

Carphunter · Oct 28, 2003

Re: Wish the good old days were at my house

SS, I feel for ya. I'll give my 2-cents worth also, but remember, its probably not worth that much.

It seems to me that the reasons that you took him out of school, would be the same reasons that I would have left him there. I believe that home schooled kids lack the interaction with other kids, and other adult authority figures, that they need. How about putting him back in school? I am a firm believer that under no circumstances should a parent be intimidated by thier children. I come from a family of three boys, (I am the youngest), and my "middle" brother tested my Dad once, if my Dad had not reacted quickly and decisevely, he would have lost the respect of all of us. We all have a great relationship now. I have two young boys, (7 and 9 years old), and they couldn't be any more different. One takes more discipline than the other. I can't treat them both exactly the same, but I can treat them both fair. Different personalities will require different techniques. efhenery hit the nail on the head, by challenging you, he has entered a mans world, and he should be treated as such. My .02, hope everything works out though, good luck.

GodsBeast · Oct 28, 2003

Re: Wish the good old days were at my house

SS Mayfloat, My dad and I never fought, I had too much respect (and or fear if you want to call it that) for him for that. My dad was smaller physically than me, his dad smaller than him. Both of them were tough as a Tank though. I have no children, so I may not be the best for giving advise on raising children. But Daily, some folks, call on me to raise their children. They have somehow, through media, been made to believe they have no right to correct their children. So they call the cops, and say if I whip em, you want to throw me in jail. I know some of the horror stories, heard in other places. Here in Louisiana, you have the right to disipline your child. You also have the right to defend yourself. Also I said Whip (spank) not put a (2X4) up against his head, that is a beating. We delt with one here that his Grandpa had to shoot him, because he had beat the old man up a couple of times. No true bill was filed against the old man, he was defending himself! I totaly agree with others, you have to RUN your own household, even if it comes to blows! You have to COMMAND AND DEMAND respect in your house, or all will be LOST! I've seen those that let their children go, from the little stuff, till they are continuasly bailing them out of jail. Now you say he is stealing money from YOU and YOUR WIFE (His own parents) under the very roof you provide over his head! So if he would steal from you, what makes you think he wouldn't steal from a stranger! Please get a grip on the young man you love, NOW, before it is too late. Would you not rather administer an old fashon whiping (fist fight, should it come to that) with you in control, or let this fester till one night your told he has been shot by one of these old timers that will still defend their property, the old fashion way, and pay the price, be whatever it may. I've seen it go this way also! Just remember, to fight with your HEAD, as much as with your fists. Make sure the battle you pick, that your DEFENDING YOURSELF, not attacking him! Please have some faith in Enforcement Officers to understand that you are doing everything possible to keep your son from being one of their future customers! They will appreciate this, and back you up, as much as they possibly can. I also agree with Spinner Bait Nut, to imploy a local Officer to talk with Junior. This will do three things. First, it will at least be another thing on your list of things you have tried to do to correct junior's behavior. Second, that Officer will also be a witness that you have tried to handle correcting your son's behavior, without turning to violence. Third, Officers may grumble about "Well I had to go play parent again." But at least they will pass the word to one another that you are dealing with a young man that is at the fork in the road, and they want him to take the right road also! Also them knowing he is Home Schooling, they are extra eyes, to help you monitor his behavior during yours and your wife's working hours. Again, use your head, pick your battles, but by all means, Take COMMAND AND DEMAND RESPECT, and stop the cycle of bail-out, and letting him get away with breaking the rules, before someone else, decides to show him street justice for breaking the rules. This justice should be taught by you, even if it gets physical, I'm sure you'd rather be in control of yourself, to know when the justice is enough, lesson taught. A Stranger is going to continue, to get out frustrations, even after the lesson is taught! Take control, and do the job right, and do it yourself. I wish you luck, with showing him the right road to travel.

Whaler Proud · Oct 28, 2003

Re: Wish the good old days were at my house

It sounds to me like your son may be bipolar. My son is and he exhibits the same behavior and nonchalance towards punishment. When we have his meds correct he is just wonderful (and he is only 9). I am finding that the physical punishment, grounding and yelling almost always backfire. I have noticed that when we go hunting, he presents very little trouble. The only thing I can figure is I treat him more like an adult and expect adult behavior from him. My wife and I are experimenting with a reward system based on behaviors and chores that must be met daily. It took me a long time to come around to this method since I was very much like my son and my dad took care of my obnoxious butt the same way many of you were taken care of. It didn't work for me and I didn't figure out how to function without creating trouble until I was almost 30. Fortunately I didn't kill anyone or cause lasting damage to myself or others. Maybe he needs to be examined by a psychiatrist and have the bipolar thing confirmed or ruled out. If he is not suffering from an emotional disability due to chemical imbalance, then I would lay out the rules, the consequence of violating them and stick to it.

SS MAYFLOAT · Oct 28, 2003

Re: Wish the good old days were at my house

Thanks for the replys. I must make it clear that I do stand my ground. He knows that I stand my ground. I don't give him handouts when he asks for it because he knows he has to work for what he gets above and beyond the supplied roof over his head, education, medical care, food, and clothes. The lady from childrens services expressed that to him that is all that is required from his parents. July 10th (my birthaday) I received a call from the county sherriff at 2am.

Some of you will remember about him drinking underage and out over curfew. From that incident, his car was taken away (even for work when he had a job) A month went by and no problems with him. He earned the right to drive again. Numerous times I told him to keep checking the fluids in his car. He got screaming mad at me for asking him that one day. His statement "Dad, you don't have to keep reminding me to do that stuff, I'm old enough and know what I'm doing" 2 weeks later he calls me and says his battery is dead. The battery wasn't dead, the engine was seized! No Freaking Oil on the stick at all! He has been without a car for the past 2 months now and insist that I buy him one. NOT NOT NOT!!! With the amount of work he has left to do before getting his diploma. It would 2 months if he put 8 hours a day in completeing his lessons. I told him that if he gets his diploma before the end of May next year, I would get him a car (not an expensive one, just a 500 dollar clunker). After the fight last night I went downstairs to play pool and cool off some. He came down after awhile and gave me a hug and did say he was sorry. But still swore up and down he didn't take the money. I have tried to consider the possibility that someone else may have done it. But nobody has been at the house alone except him. Just 9 1/2 more months....

Who am I kidding? I'm still helping out his two olders sisters now and then. That will be the same for him. Sure is hard to Love a headache!

Thanks...SS

Columbia · Oct 28, 2003

Re: Wish the good old days were at my house

Texskeeter and Rogerwa gave opinions that I really respect. As I look back on the probs I had with my stepson they were best addressed by his mother in finding out his opinion and then respecting it. Things got broken or disappeared and when there was no way I could prove he'd done it I had to let it go even when I was sure it was him. Then I'd kind of do things to prevent it again as best I could. I worried about how this kid was going to turn out but he's near 22 now and doing well. It is the "wanting to be a man" issue that is so important in the father/son relationship..even when they don't always make good choices. I would be concerned about why you had to pull him out of school, professional opinion might shed some light on that. It could provide a glimpse into more of the issues as well. Best of wishes!

11 footer · Oct 28, 2003

Re: Wish the good old days were at my house

Don't throw him out. My aunt did that to her kid. Since then he's: Been thrown out of the army, In and out of jail/rehabs, came back, stole his moms BMW and rapped it around a tree, Been a suspect in a major crime, had a baby at 18y/o with a loser girl, ect.....ect.....ect. He is always trying to use his family, but has pretty much been dissowned. My dad gets pissed it I even bring him up his name in our house

Put up with him, it will get better.

FSHKPR · Oct 28, 2003

Re: Wish the good old days were at my house

mayfloat all i can say is hang in there it does get better. my son gave more grief than i ever thought i would be able to handle. kicked him out of the house at 15. after about 6 months out on his own he vowed he changed his ways and we let him come back with some strict rules. well he never followed them. by the time he was 161/2 he was in a juvenile deliquent home. stayed there till he was 18. got out moved in with us for about a month and decided the rules here were too much. so off he went on his own. before he hit 19 he was in a real prison. 18 months later hes out, made it about 6 months and went back in for another year. The way i handled it might not have been right but i think its finally starting to sink in. i always told him anytime you need help with something, and your trying to help yourself. come to me and i will do anything i can to help. but if your looking for a handout dont bother me. i will always give you a hand up if can, i will NEVER give you a handout. hes 25 years old now and been out of prison little over a year and i actually look forward to his visits now. there was a time when i just dreaded having him even near me, because i knew we would just end up arguing. I know he still has a long way to go but i can see he has come along way already. I guess what i am trying to say is what everyone else has already said. make sure he knows you love him. Make sure he knows you will be there for him. but also let him know you wont be taken advantage of and he has to help himself also. And above all. NEVER blame yourself for his actions. Kids are people and they are all different. I have a daughter that was a model student never gave us any trouble at all. they were both raised the same way. Why one was trouble and the other pretty dam near perfect i will never understand. so in closing just hang in there buddy things will get better, In the mean time feel free to come here and vent all you want. thats one reason we are all here.

SS MAYFLOAT · Oct 28, 2003

Re: Wish the good old days were at my house

Question was asked about the situation with school. He was surpose to graduate 2004, this school term. With his behavior problem he would be doing the 10th grade again for the 2nd time as he did with a couple of other grades. So we figured he would be 21 when he would graduate. The chances of him just being a drop out and not getting his diploma where too good. With this program, it is self pace, and I know now what he is learning and his progress. In school, even with teacher conf., I never know what the heck was going on with him. Neither did the teachers. Currently he has a B+ average. He has always looked at school as a place to socialize and not to learn. Even when he was in elementary, he told the principal "Bite Me Old Man!"? Of course he got into trouble over that one. Principal said my son didn't want them to call me because I was gonna beat him so bad that he would be missing school until the bruises healed. When I walked into the office my son come running hugging me and then hanging on my leg. Principal saw then and there he wasn't scared of me. He was even on Ritalin. Didn't hardley faize him and when they upped the prescription he would have severe headaches. So I stopped it after it didn't seem to make a diff. Should I tell him that when he turns 18 he is out? or Should I tell him that after he turns 18 he must pay for rent, food, and live by stricter rules? SS-Will-hang-in-there-float

FLATHEAD · Oct 28, 2003

Re: Wish the good old days were at my house

Dont know what to tell you to do,, but I was a real basterd to my folks when I was a kid also. Always doing stuff to upset them and always getting in deep sh!t. constant trouble at school, getting arrested, drugs,, the whole nine yards. Why I was like that?? I really dont know!!! When I was 17 got into a major fist fight with the old man ( he whipped my tail). I deserved it too. Though at the time I did not think so. Anyhow my pop threw me out. Man I learned a lot about life real fast. I can look back on it now and honestly say it was best thing that could have happened to me at the time. Also I look back and feel terrible for the hell I put my mother through. Unlike Ryan T's cousin I managed to clean up my act, stay out of trouble, finish school, work a job and live on my own. Maybe it was because I thought I had to prove to my dad that I could make it on my own. Maybe it was because I had no other choice. I figure a little of both. I guess what I am trying to say is that by my dad being tough and not giving in to my sh!t any longer he did us both a favor. I am so thankful my two kids (22 and 18) did not act like I did. Just my 2 Cents

Wish the good old days were at my house

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