Wish the good old days were at my house

[Whaler Proud]

Re: Wish the good old days were at my house

Mayfloat, I am going through the same kind of experiences with my son in elementary school as you did with yours except he is being treated for the bipolar condition. <br /><br />We have learned that Ritalin does nothing for kids with this condition. In fact, the opposite is true. It just ramps them up and makes them more belligerant than ever. We had fantastic success with Depakote until he developed an allergic reaction and now we are playing with other meds to try and stabilize the mood swings.<br /><br />I don't want to come off as pushy in regard to the bipolar deal, but after spending a large amount of my life struggling with the condition myself and now experiencing the same hell I put my parents through, I can attest to the wonders of medication. It changed my life and helps my son along.<br /><br />Your situation is tough. I think you hit a good plan with establishing the rules for when he turns 18. This gives your son time to make the decision to adjust and abide or be on his own. However it works, it will be his decision. I bailed two days after graduation and lasted all of 3 months. In retrospect, my mom should have listened to my dad and not let me return. Like I said in a previous post, it took me until I was 30 to figure out the problem was me and not the world. But having mom's lap to fall back in made it real easy for me to not take a hard look at myself and take the steps to actually grow up.<br /><br />Good luck.I'll be contacting you in about 8 years to discuss how to manage my own hellion's adulthood.

 

[aspeck]

Re: Wish the good old days were at my house

SS, what to do when he turns 18? That, my friend, is entirely up to you and your son. The way I see it, and the way you describe it, he will be welcome to be at home as long as he is agreeable, helpful, and supportive - and that is the way it should be.<br /><br />My 18 year old step-son decided that my rules were too tough to live by and he moved in with his paternal grandmother (his father didn't want him) at 17. Before he moved out, we had talked about rules and responsibilities. I left him know what I expected of him and what he could expect of me. Let him know that if he wanted to go to college, I would help him as long as it was a college that I agreed to and he had to be able to justify his choices. He agreed, then 2 weeks later he moved out. He is now attending college (with no help from me or his mother), and doing well on his own. Like others here, it is an "I'll show you" attitude. His grades are improving, and he is coming around the house more and more. There has been a lot of prayer going up to God for this young man, and I believe we are starting to win the battle.<br /><br />So, don't give up hope, and don't give up doing what you feel is best to do.

 

[FSHKPR]

Re: Wish the good old days were at my house

when my son got out of juvinile detention at 18 and moved back in with us that was one of the major rules. you will get a job and you will pay rent. i had planned on taking his rent and putting it in a savings account. and giving it all back to him. when he had his act all together. like i said he did not last long with us because the rules were more than he wanted to deal with. it took a while but things are finally looking up. he did get his ged. and has actually held the same job for the last 6 months. of course he is a father now too and that son means the world to him so i am sure that plays a big part in his turn around. i pray every day he will keep it up. not only for him now but also for my grandson!

 

[Skinnywater]

Re: Wish the good old days were at my house

It's way to late to change his diapers. You can't lock him in a closet. You've done your best and now he's trying to be a man.<br /><br />I'd have a cool and calm heart to heart with him.<br />I'd explain that in your face instance was his last kitchen pass.<br />Explain that it's your sincere wishes that he get his diploma and that he respect your home until he does.<br />I'd also explain he will not have ANY other chances to mess up and disrespect you or your home.<br />If he fails again at this, pack his clothes, change the locks and without any guilt, let him go. And stick to it.<br />Do NOT get the law involved, or child protective services.<br />Don't let him or the system hold you hostage to thinking that a 17.5 year old boy makes you and your home responsible for his violence.<br /><br />He put the challenge to you because he's trying to be a man. Don't get in the way of this, let him go. Trust in yourself and your wife that you gave him enough to go with. He'll pull on that foundation on his own and in his own time.<br /><br />Let him go.

 

[Topmason]

Re: Wish the good old days were at my house

Whaler Proud,<br />IMO, get the child off the meds!<br />Bipolar?<br />To me that's just another "practicing" doc trying to pump undoubtedly expensive and most liklely trial "pharmaceutical" drugs down a little person that perhaps needs some special attention.<br /><br />Where was "bipolar", "disfunctional", "anxiety", and all the other "terms we buy" because the doc or some shrink says so, when we were growin up??<br />It's all a bunch of B.S. to suck more money out of the general public == you and I.<br /><br />I'm sure I'll suffer from the wrath of intelligence for this post, but I for one, am sick and tired of the medical and law "practices" we all succumb to.<br />But of course, it's just my opinion,........... kinda like a "practice"<br />I wish your little one relief from his symptoms.

 

[SS MAYFLOAT]

Re: Wish the good old days were at my house

Wow, it was funny stuff at the house last night. My friend that runs a junk yard which is strong as an ape and stocky as an ox was over. My son being a macho kid trying to prove his strength like he did me the other night started play fighting with my friend. Big mistake on his part.<br /><br />Lonnie had him under control wrestling with him. Everything was cool until my son started getting mad. He started swinging and kicking at Lonnie, but Lonnie wasn't hurt one bit. Lonnie just induced more strength and kept him pinned down til my son cooled down. My son ended up with some bruises, scratches and a few small cuts.<br /><br />We explained to him that there is always someone out there that is meaner and stronger than you no matter what your size is. <br /><br />After that my son kept his distance away from him. This may have been a good lesson, we will just have to wait and see.<br /><br />Thanks for the responses........SS

 

[oddjob]

Re: Wish the good old days were at my house

Skinny- What you said.<br /><br />TopMason- Top I agree 100%, but I didnt have the balls or energy to say it. But it does need to be said. <br />If you type in biopolar in the internet and read....he11, we all got biopolar disorder. Stress can kill or it can modivate you. And we all gotta cope with that. <br />The sykes today are legalized drug pushers. They dont even try to talk people thru why they are under stress or how to cope. They just load you up until you smile. <br /><br />SS- Your son still may not give you the respect he now has for Lonnie. If he ever does this to you, you need to be able to do the same, if you cant (for whatever reason) he will have to go.

 

[Whaler Proud]

Re: Wish the good old days were at my house

Topmason:<br /><br />Thanks for the kind words for my son.<br /><br />2 years ago I would have agreed with you 1000%. However after witnessing the improvement in my son since getting involved in his treatment, I am a cautious proponent of the treatment he is receiving.<br /><br />When he was 4 he would go from plotting ways he could die so he did not have to be sad anymore to staying awake for 2 days. I figured he would outgrow it since I did.<br /><br />My son never played with the normal toys you expect a boy to play with. We had brand new Tonka trucks, blocks, all of that sitting in their packages never touched. He just couldn't concentrate long enough to do anything with them nor could he process his thoughts enough to be creative with them. His moods would swing several times a day (its called "rapid-cycling") and we never knew which direction he was going to go. And he constantly berate himself because he wanted to be good but just couldn't.<br /><br />I tried all of the disciplines that my parents used on me to no avail. My son became fearful of being around me. My wife was taking him to doctors but I saw so much of myself, I just assumed he was really smart and was playing us.<br /><br />Bipolar used to be called "manic-depressive" and was thought to be only in adults. However, it has now been proven (through study after study) that the condition is hereditary, and appears earlier in each successive generation. On top of this, my wife's family has a history of it and so does mine. We didn't realize the history until we started seeking help for my son.<br /><br />His condition does not excuse his behavior. Nor does the fact he needs these meds to maintain. A large part of the prupose of the meds is to enable his moods to stabilize so he is capable of learning how to behave and function as to what society considers "normal". He is still held accountable for his actions, it is just that he has more actions than most. The best way to describe it is "normal dumb boy stuff X 10".<br /><br />In closing, I agree that a large percentage of behavior medication is prescribed because people (parents, teachers, etc.) cannot or will not take the time and patience to work with the very intelligent kids. They just don't fit the mold and never will. <br /><br />And we did not see as much of this stuff when we were growing up because society has changed so much in the last 30 years. I stated that I suffer from the same condition and did not have meds until an adult. But I was able to deal with it because I did not display symptoms until I was around 10 or 11. I also grew up in a semi-rural area where I did not need to be monitored continually (we didn't worry too much about *********s, kidnappings, gang shootings, drugs)and spent most of my time outdoors. <br /><br />100 years ago kids with these symptoms were highly prized on ranches and farms because of their intelligence and energy. As said before, these kids just don't fit the mold anymore.<br /><br />I apologize for my soapbox and promise that I will leave this subject alone in this forum from now on. If anyone wants more information though, please feel free to email me.

 

[oddjob]

Re: Wish the good old days were at my house

When he was 4 he would go from plotting ways he could die so he did not have to be sad anymore to staying awake for 2 days. I figured he would outgrow it since I did.<br />

Whaler Proud, I respectfully have a real hard time understanding the ability of a 4 year old to understand, contimplate and vocalize suicied (or natural death) without some sort of help or training. But hey thats just me and it proves I dont know everything.<br /><br />Sometimes my children have a chemical imbalance when they eat to much sugar. They become hyper, mean, happy, or jealous and generally unruly.<br /><br />Me I feel great all day if I exercise first thing in the morning. <br /><br />Try a cleaner diet and more exercise. <br /><br />If I eat too much for lunch I become lazy and depressed and not as productive. When you eat more carbs than your body can burn then those carbs are stored and used as sugar in the body. Just something everone should consider.<br /><br />As I become older I'm becoming more sensitive to how your diet, routine and social life can change the way feel about yourself and life in general.<br /><br />Sorry to ramble, but I like to think more that illness (physical or mental) can avoided or corrected by our own bodies if we give it what it needs to do the task.<br /><br />Food for thought..and the belly ..

 

[gaugeguy]

Re: Wish the good old days were at my house

I,like Flathead, was a real pisser to my parents when I was a teenager. Tangled with the old man a couple times and came out on the short end of the stick. Didn't have a lot to look forward to, was probably gonna wind up dead or in jail. I joined the Marines and became a man real quick. Learned that respect is earned, not just given. Discipline was paramount and that I was totally responsible for my own actions and would pay dearly if I didn't walk the line. Talk that boy into a stint in the service, it really did save my life. That's my .02.

 

[Gep]

Re: Wish the good old days were at my house

Topmason and oddjob,<br /><br />Bi-Polar is not made up for the Doctors to make money on treating it.<br /><br />When my sister was diagnosed about ten years ago with Bi-polar/Manic-depressive disease I took no pity on her and told her constantly to "pull herself up by her bootstraps".<br />She was also a acoholic, which didn't help at all.<br /><br />In those ten years she tried to kill herself three times, ended up in the hospital more times than I can count, and she would disappear for days. She couldn't keep a boyfriend because no one could put up with mood swings.<br />She couldn't hold a job because she couldn't concentrate for longer than 15 minutes without her meds, if her meds were taken. <br />Hell, It took the doctors three years just to get her on the right meds.<br />She was a totally different person when she was taking her meds.<br /><br />She died a year ago last August at the age of 43. My sister and I were 11 months apart and were our parents only children. There isn't a day that goes by that I don't think about her and wonder maybe if I would have believed her and helped her instead of saying "poo-poo, it's all a crock, pull yourself up by your bootstraps", she might still be around.<br /><br />I guess what I'm trying to say is you shouldn't make a blanket statement without having the facts.<br /><br />Mike

 

[oddjob]

Re: Wish the good old days were at my house

Gep, I respect your experience and I have no specific criticism for it. My sister who should have died of a car accident 23 years also requires some of these meds to function or she becomes very hostile and paranoid. At 17 she was in a coma for four months. <br /><br />The point is, some people may really need it.<br />Generally, adults who cant cope for whatever reason and I understand this. <br /><br />Coping is part of maturing as I understand it. And maybe some adults can't or won't do it. <br /><br />My concern is that with children, ridilin and other drugs are replacing parenting as anti-depressents are replacing serious adult counciling. See counciling requires work for both parties. Drugs require no effort and therefore only mask the symtoms and will not resolve them without it.<br /><br />As you stated, one shouldnt make a blank statement... well I have some facts and so do you.<br /><br />There was a statement by Whaler Proud that SS junior "sounds like he may be bi-polar" like his son is and so on based only on this topic. I believe I was responding to a blank statement based on the facts presented and in my personal experience (of which I have shared very little so far). <br />I'm simply throwing much caution to the wind in the case of children. Because I believe this condition is often mis-diagnosed because the cure is as easy as a pill.<br /><br />EDIT((I hope you understand my point as <br />I understand yours)) <br /><br />And my condolences in respect to your sister. I hope you can refrain from placing blame on yourself. <br /><br />ojb

 

[Skinnywater]

Re: Wish the good old days were at my house

SS, your last post troubles me a bit.<br /><br />A major part of my lifestyle and a grand hobby of mine is horsemanship. The training of young colts requires extreme patience, intellegence, respect and an intuitive connection.<br />My own personal horse that I started from its birth, will lead without a rope. He'll reign without a bit and lounge without a line.<br />I've taken horses that are mean and nasty, ones that step all over thier owners and within an afternoon have them behaveing like gentlemen.<br /><br />Now here's the point. That same horse while being respectful to me, given back to their owner, within minuteswill go back to their rotten ways. A cowboy rule is if a horse throws you, you get back on him. If you don't the horse will learn how to stop being rode. It doesn't do any good whatsoever if after being thrown someone else gets on. The horse will still learn how to keep you from riding him.<br /><br />You can best bet Lonnie will never have a problem with your son. But until you get back on him he'll never get the respect to lead without a rope.

 

[SS MAYFLOAT]

Re: Wish the good old days were at my house

Thanks guys, your probably right about how he is with Lonnie. But Lonnie comes and visits about twice a month. Everytime he does, my son ends up being flattened by Lonnie. Lonnie does not provoke him at all. It is my son who instigates it because he is the type that just loves to wrestle.<br /><br />I'm not a big man. 5' 10", 180 pounds. I weighed only 98 when I graduated from high school. It wasn't until 6 years ago I went from 130 to my present weight. Being small in school, I got picked on alot and had to learn to stay out of fights.<br /><br />Now my son is the bully that would have picked on me do to the size that I was. He knows I'm stronger and have more endurance than he does. I get fit by digging dirt, cutting, splitting wood, and mostly laboring chores that give a good workout. When he is doing something that he can't lift, twist, or anything he doesn't have the strength to do, he comes and gets me.<br /><br />He bugged me for years to arm wrestle me. I watched him as he arm wrestled his friends and mine as well. One day he beat on of my friends that is large man. I told myself this can't be true that my son beat him. So when my son was away I arm wrestled him and beat him worse than what my son did. My friend was astonished that I beat him that bad.<br /><br />So that night my son bugged me to arm wrestle him. Took him up and whooped his butt. Did it 4 more times with the same result.<br /><br />Last night I overheard him talking to his girl friend telling her what happened the other night.<br />He was telling her that he had provoked me into fighting and was glad dad didn't go off a beat the crap out him. Said Dad was on the edge of kicking my butt!<br /><br />I'm not scarred of him one bit. If I was, I wouldn't have been in his face as well. I stood my ground and he was the one that finally backed down.<br /><br />I just don't want to hurt my son, the one kid that I have had the opportunity to raise from birth. I do love him and he knows it. He just gets over aggravaited because when dad says no, dad means no and he gets mad because of it. He'll throw temper tantrums but I don't let that change my decision.<br /><br />The last couple of days have been fine as the most days are. It just seems that when he is caught in a lie, he would just fight to the death to defend his lie rather than owning up to the truth. I have explained to him that a real man will admit to his mistakes.<br /><br />Thanks there again shipmates......SS

 

[catfish1]

Re: Wish the good old days were at my house

mayfloat, just wondering. is it possible the money was stolen by one of his friends? i know when i was livin with maa i had friends over alot while my mother was at work, a couple of times things came up missing and i did'nt do it. but i found out who did and i literally kicked his teeth in. point is, maybe he's got buddies commin over when no ones home and stealin your stuff.

 

[Whaler Proud]

Re: Wish the good old days were at my house

Thanks for your response Gep.<br /><br />Oddjob: In response to your statement about a 4 year old's ability to contemplate suicide, one of the traits of the disorder is a level of thinking that is almost on the adult level.<br /><br />In regard to diet, he was never allowed to have sugar, caffeine or other types of stimulants. I agree with you that diet can play a large role.<br /><br />I also agree that many times parents seek a pill to control the behavior of their kids. However, that is not the case for my wife and I. If his problem could besolved by diet alone, I would be all over it. His meds cost me more than $500.00 per month (my share, insurance gets the rest) plus hospital bills for the periods when we are forced to check him in because he cannot cope.<br /><br />I said I wouldn't post any more about this, and I apologize for going back on my word. The situation at my house is not one of wanting to avoid my responsibility as a parent or wanting to drug my son into compliance. It is one of wanting to find a solution to his problems so he has a chance of leading a decent life. My wife and I would also like to get some sleep. Psychiatric / medical care was a choice of last resort. And I really do get mad when the medical profession puts a "name" or label to every damned emotional characteristic and tries to determine what is "normal".<br /><br />I do not expect anyone's opinion about mental illness to be changed by my experience or statements. But I can state with authority that once you experience bipolar, you quickly understand. I did not come around to believing all of it until I finally opened my eyes to what was going on. <br /><br />And skinnywater, your approach does work with kids. I have quit using corporal punishment with my son and use well laid out and understandable consequences for misbehaving.

 

[Topmason]

Re: Wish the good old days were at my house

Whaler,<br />I believe I have a better understanding of this disease or condition thanks to your posts.<br />The reason I was down on meds is because my Mom died at age 35 from the mass meds being prescribed to her for arthritis.<br />Yeah, believe it or not, my Mom had rheumatiod arthtritis in every joint in her body.<br />At one point, Doc had her taking 72 pills per day of this drug or that drug.<br />She got her arthritis from a botched spinal block when my sis was born, but of course we can't hold our practitioners responsible for that now can we?<br />Wow just thinkin bout that, she was crippled from arthritis at age 20!<br />She died 16 days before my 16th B-day and back then I just thought Mom was older and got sick.<br />Now, I still feel like a kid at heart at 42 years old so I can only imagine how she felt about dying at 35.<br /><br />Sorry for the non stop ramble.

 

[oddjob]

Re: Wish the good old days were at my house

Proud Whaler, sorry if I came across in a negative manner. I am ignorant of your situation. Mental health is a gray area I must admit. I wish you and your family only the best. Your story is now part of my fexible opinion.<br /><br />Top Mason, my wife has a similar condition and I'm begging her to start exercising so maybe she can tapper back on the the meds.<br /><br />Take care all!...