WOT Engine RPMs and Prop Pitch for Rebuilt 25 hp Evinrude

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Re: WOT Engine RPMs and Prop Pitch for Rebuilt 25 hp Evinrude

The lower anticavitation plate must always run submerged and ride paralell to water level when boat is on plane, if exposed will experiment prop aireation at close turns or at choppy waters, but perfect for top end speed at flat straight course

Apparently there r differing opinions on this. Local boat mechanics and others online r telling me the plate should be fully visible rt at the surface or just above. A cupped prop and proper trim will help eliminate ventilation during chop and turns. The prevailing wisdom seems to b to move motor up a notch at a time until it starts to vent, then move it down one notch.
 

steelespike

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Re: WOT Engine RPMs and Prop Pitch for Rebuilt 25 hp Evinrude

Thats my usual recommendation. As I understand it the 2 piece gearcase doesn't work well raising the motor.
Many times I have said "raise the motor to a point just before venting becomes a problem".
Of course if you think about that quote; It means raise the motor till it vents then lower it till it doesn't. lol
 

Sea Rider

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Re: WOT Engine RPMs and Prop Pitch for Rebuilt 25 hp Evinrude

Apparently there r differing opinions on this. Local boat mechanics and others online r telling me the plate should be fully visible rt at the surface or just above. A cupped prop and proper trim will help eliminate ventilation during chop and turns. The prevailing wisdom seems to b to move motor up a notch at a time until it starts to vent, then move it down one notch.

What have stated performs wonderfully with boats using medium and manual trim engines, being not rocket science it's a matter to sea trial test if this works or not for your boat. But it's a good start sitting engine on transom and then playing with engine/transom height all you want untill you are performance satisfied.

The Youtube example posted was from a boater experimenting engine/transom height problems, indicated the same correcting procedure, he has posted that video showing results as seen. And that speed it's just at 1/2 throttle. On the other side you are just running a 35 horse.

No good to have a well exposed anticav plate, besides prop aireation on close turns, you could have overheat issues having water intake ports riding to close to water flow letting air in, much worst at choppy seas. +1 if you will be racing on flat calm waters. You don't have a cupped prop, you have an old prop, so best engine/transom height is a must achieve...

Happy Boating
 
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Re: WOT Engine RPMs and Prop Pitch for Rebuilt 25 hp Evinrude

Thanks for the feedback steelespike and sea rider.
Since this is a long thread, u may have missed it, but I am trying to get a high performance, stainless steel 12" cupped prop to work. It is currently turning 4500 rpm at 31.5mph. (I will calibrate speedo next time out to be sure). I am happy w the speed but I am concerned about running at only 4500rpm. The current set up (see pics above) does not ventilate. So I will be raising the motor to see if I can get rpms up a bit before I re-pitch the prop, if necessary.
If u look at the pic of the motor bracket on the transom, u will notice that I am at the upper limit of motor height, even tho the vent plate is flush w hull bottom. I need to consider a transom extension or a manual jackplate to further experiment.
As far as the split gearcase is concerned, I have plans to improve those awful hydrodynamics before I test. Pics to come.
Any recommendations on a manual jackplate w maybe only 3" of setback? Or transom extension?
 

steelespike

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Re: WOT Engine RPMs and Prop Pitch for Rebuilt 25 hp Evinrude

Sometimes it is suggested to calculate props with cup at 1" higher pitch.
Calculator says motor with a 13" prop 10%slip at 31.5 mph is turning about 4975 rpm.
if we use 5% slip (unlikely)with a 13" we get 4714.
If we calculate a 12" we get 5106 at 5% slip.While you probably do need a prop adjustment
You need to be sure of speed and rpm.
 
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Re: WOT Engine RPMs and Prop Pitch for Rebuilt 25 hp Evinrude

Thanks for rerunning those numbers steelespike - I will post confirmed/corrected numbers as soon as they are available. I am using Tiny Tach for rpms and depthfinder paddlewheel sensor for speed. I have been unable to confirm the gear ratio for this motor and I wonder if that may be the number that is throwing everything off. Can you point me to a pitch/rpm/speed/ratio calculator?

The boat is painted but the engine is not (yet). We have had crummy weather here on the South Carolina coast this spring so, so far, I am not missing much on the water. I hope to finish sanding the lower unit tonight. Degreasing all of the nooks and crannies of a 30 year old outboard has proven quite a challenge, but must be completed prior to priming.

Also, do you (or anyone else) have any experience with jackplates?
 

steelespike

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Re: WOT Engine RPMs and Prop Pitch for Rebuilt 25 hp Evinrude

Using specs. from 77 31.8 cube 25 hp is 12/21 gear count or 1.75 gear ratio. Same as the 22 cube.
Factory prop was 9 1/4 X 11 of course the final size would depend on the application. 25 hp at 5000,
rpm range 4500 to 5500.I think the ratio remains the same until they changed the gearecase in 85.
3 props available for the 83 and 1.75 gear case.. 9,10 and 11. 85 thru hub gear case has 7 sizes 9" to 15" I'm guessing 2.23 gear ratio.
as far as a jack plate I don't think you need much, another inch or two will be about it.
I was thinking of 3 layers of 1/2" 5 ply ply wood glued together alternating grain. Gorilla glue comes to mind.
A couple of 3" long slits for 2 bolts near the top of the present transom.More slits and bolts if the jack plate is wider
A couple of holes lower to secure the lower part once you have established a working height.
You could use a couple of aluminum angle irons to bolt through the add more support from the bottom bolts to the top.
Angle irons a little taller than the plywood so its still there for the plywood as you raise it.Only the board raises not the irons.
Any stress on the inside is in the area of the clamps and upper bolts The inside top of the clamp just rests on the top.
 
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Re: WOT Engine RPMs and Prop Pitch for Rebuilt 25 hp Evinrude

Update: I finished the motor and boat painting and it turned out great.

1-Photo May 26, 8 13 17 PM.jpg1-Photo May 26, 8 13 35 PM.jpg1-Photo May 26, 8 13 51 PM.jpg1-Photo May 23, 9 20 26 PM.jpg

The white primer lower unit pic shows how I filled in all of the screw pockets and voids with paintable silicone (removable later if necessary) to streamline the flow and reduce ventilation.

I ran the boat with same loading and used a gps for speed. GPS showed 26 mph at WOT with the 12" cupped SS prop. Not surprising given the calcs that you all did. I have to admit, it felt faster than that. Anyhow, I think I am having trouble with my dime store tach ($15 from Amazon) because it only showed 2500rpm at WOT. The tach is actually a Tiny Tach knock off, not the real thing. I lengthened the antenna wire (which wraps around the spark plug wire) and now I am getting weird readings. The engine certainly felt and sounded more like double the readings. The tach has several settings, so I will play with that and feedback. I will probably replace it with a genuine Tiny Tach, which does get good reviews.

More to come later.
 

steelespike

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Re: WOT Engine RPMs and Prop Pitch for Rebuilt 25 hp Evinrude

The rig looks good.
If the Hydrofoil is in the water at speed it could be slowing you down.
Hopefully you can get the boat to run on the rear 1/2 to 1/3 of the boat.
Though some jon boats tend to lay down too flat.
 
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Re: WOT Engine RPMs and Prop Pitch for Rebuilt 25 hp Evinrude

Funny you should mention that, steelespike. Usually she squats a bit and runs bow high. I have moved fuel and battery to the bow, which also helps when poling, and added the hydrofoil. Alot depends on where the passenger sits. if they sit fwd, it balances out pretty well. My goal, however, is to have my passenger sit next to me on the rear deck as you would on a normal flats boat. If the person is, say, under 200lbs, then the boat rides great like that, but bigger guys have to ride up front. I, myself am rather large at 240lbs. So that is along way to say that I am also playing with the motor tilt angle and the hydrofoil angle. the hydrofoil helps with the squatting and also helps keep her hooked up in tight turns. I like to buzz thru small feeder creeks in the local marshes. It seems like the ideal tilt angle is between two of the tilt pin settings. i usually run the lower one which gets the bow down, but this puts the vent plate at a slightly angle up. the higher pin setting causes ventilation. I am also experimenting with the hydrofoil angle by putting ss washers under the fwd bolts. this definitely has an effect on boat trim and i am hoping it will prove to be the solution. Trim tabs would probably be the ultimate solution, but will have wait on that.

On another note, I am currently getting wet plug fouling which is causing me to lose top end and rough midrange. going to try a hotter plug.

Its always something with boats, but i do love working it all out. I also appreciate all of the comments and help. More to come.
 
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Re: WOT Engine RPMs and Prop Pitch for Rebuilt 25 hp Evinrude

Update: I tried the hotter plugs and it ran much better, however I am still getting plug fouling. Taking it back to the rebuilder mechanic today for a look-see. I increased the angle of the hydrofoil which helped get the transom up. Still only getting 4600-4800 rpms. I am convinced this is not the right prop. It appears the engine has been lugging with carbon build up on the piston crown and fouled plugs. It is running rough at low/mid range and it is not turning up enough rpms on top end. Ughh! I got ahold of a 1983 35hp owners manual (ebay rocks!) and it states the power band as 5200-5800 with the 35hp rating at 5500. So my rpms are way too low. Will be searching for a new prop. Unfortunately, this engine is relatively unique (split gearcase, non-thru-hub exhaust, spline drive) and ss props are hard to come by.

The question now is: which prop to get? I want SS, and the next OMC size down from 9.25" x 12" is the 9.25" x 9"p SST. Would three inches make enough difference to raise the rpms from 4800 to 5500? I need to de-carbon the cylinders first and get the right plugs in there and see what WOT is.

Plug fouling on the OMC recommended plug (Champion QL77JC4) at 0.040 gap after running 8 gallons of fuel:
Photo May 30, 6 32 30 PM.jpg

Light plug fouling on a hotter plug (NGK BR7HS) at 0.040 gap after 4 gallons of fuel:
Photo May 30, 6 29 40 PM.jpg

View of piston crown showing heavy carbon build up after 22 hours since rebuild:
Photo May 30, 6 40 55 PM.jpg

Can anyone confirm that this is indeed lugging? Or is it just running too rich? Or what? By the way, the engine was broken in by the book over a 12 hour period.
 
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Re: WOT Engine RPMs and Prop Pitch for Rebuilt 25 hp Evinrude

Another point to make: The thermostat was removed and replaced with an open flow restricter (essentially a thermostat with the guts removed).
 

steelespike

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Re: WOT Engine RPMs and Prop Pitch for Rebuilt 25 hp Evinrude

I don't recall but if you messed with the carb/intake manifold I would lean toward too much fuel
wrong jets,wrong carb Venturi,wrong carb.Be sure carb is assembled right I seem to recall choke problems if assembled wrong.
Sorry I can't be more detailed.
 

Sea Rider

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Re: WOT Engine RPMs and Prop Pitch for Rebuilt 25 hp Evinrude

Is BR7HS same exact equivalence to QL77JC4 my ex Evi who used same QL was gapped according to factory specs to 0.8 mm, (0.30) and performed well, try with this gap. A thermostat is used by a reason, if runing open, engine will not work properly, temp issues, no good. Place a new one.

Happy Boating
 

thill

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Jun 17, 2008
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Re: WOT Engine RPMs and Prop Pitch for Rebuilt 25 hp Evinrude

Removing the thermostat may cause the engine to run too cool, which may cause the fouling you have observed.

Try running Seafoam at a 1 oz per gallon ratio, and that will also help with the fouling.

Sounds like your motor is running too cold, and your prop is a little too steep.

-TH
 

dazk14

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Re: WOT Engine RPMs and Prop Pitch for Rebuilt 25 hp Evinrude

Yes, this is an old thread that thill has resurrected and "Salt" has gone dark after 34 posts...

That said. For others contemplating porting and new carbs, nearly always carb jetting has to be dialed in and also where the peak power band will occur.

Carb jetting can be a PIA, and bigger jets can often be the wrong direction.

If the shop has already built these before and dialed everything in, great. You've just scored a lot of free R&D.

In this case, it does not seem so. It's not producing any where near 40hp as it sits and based on those plugs, it's too rich.

I don't know the water temps and head temps at full throttle. It may be OK. But he may be wise to put the thermostat back in, especially for low speed.

It's helpful to have a good tack. The Tiny tach is a bit slow updating, which is important for WOT runs, since a slightly too lean setting will run quickly up to a high rpm, then start to drop as the piston overheats and swells in the bore.

Sticking a piston can happen quickly, so you need a fast tach response time, but you're not even close to that, at this point.

A PET Tach is a better option. You can probably find used ones for less than $100. You are tuning for max rpm.

The SST prop you have should work great. Just get your jetting set correctly and it will rev plenty if the porting was done correctly.

Be careful raising that motor too high as that has a very high water pickup, just below the A/V plate.

Regardless what the spark plug crossover book says, the B7HS is a slightly hotter plug than the L77jc4.

Just thought I'd try to give future "Searchers" a bone, rather than a dead end after reading through 35 Posts.

Maybe Salt with be back with his final results.
 
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Old post resurected, I have an update on this situation. It was indeed lugging. This boat is relatively heavy because of the decking/console/floor/fishing gear/etc, in addition i am 235lbs plus usually one guest on board. My engine rebuilder was thinking a 12" pitch for racing, but I needed a power prop to deal with the weight. I gambled and purchased a NOS evinrude 9" pitch SST prop. The boat runs great now. My cheap tach tells me I am somewhere around 5600 when everything is right, getting something like 24 or 25 mph. I am so pleased. Thanks for all of the help here. I apologize for taking so long to follow up, but once it started running right I was fishing or duck hunting all the time.
 
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For those of you who like boat porn pics, here are some of the mostly finished boat. It shows the older aluminum prop and not the new, 9" SST that is on it now. In addition, I have added all SS rod holders to the platform and the bow. They are obviously useful for rods, but in addition, my duck blind fits into them. I hope you like it.
 
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This time with photos...
 

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dazk14

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Glad it worked out for you. Very nice looking rig, and FAR more equipped than envisioned.

Did I miss something...wasn't the boat running in the 30's before and now it's mid twenties?
 
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