Yamaha F150 Durability/Reliability

[angler53]

Who has them and how have they held up?

My first one lasted 15 hours in four weeks of ownership. I purchased it new (Mfg 11/2005) in August on a new 2007 Ranger boat.
Yamaha installed a new powerhead. This one is coming up on 12 hours and it's not doing well. It's making oil. It's venting oil from the exhaust relief port. It runs good, I guess, Hard to trust it. Yamaha did the initial break-in. Yamaha has done a leak-down and says there's nothing wrong with it, it's perfect.
In the two months I've owned the boat its been in the water 14 times and 26 hours. Took time off work and returned it to the dealer four times.
All I hear is they are bullet-proof, best 4-stroke on the water, best outboard ever built. Man I'm glad I don't have one of the lesser one's.

 

[JB]

Re: Yamaha F150 Durability/Reliability

The guides I use on Lake Of The Woods are brothers with identical boats. One uses Yammy F150, the other uses Suzuki (big block) DF150s. Both had around 1500 hours this past summer and have needed nothing more than scheduled maintenance. Reliability is a big issue with them because it is over 100 miles to the nearest dealer of either engine.

I like the Suzi because it is quieter at low rpm, but both are great engines.

 

[PAkev]

Re: Yamaha F150 Durability/Reliability

I've had my F150 since they were first available in 2004 and am very satisfied with it. I'm pushing close to 200hrs on it and have only had to do preventive maintenance. Im considering a small outboard for a river jon boat and wouldn't hesitate buying another Yammie 4 stroke.

 

[tommays]

Re: Yamaha F150 Durability/Reliability

Not Rodbolt


BUT i am sure he would say it is over proped

And that the motor MUST reach its rated WOT with a normal load or it will make OIL and have all kinds of problems


What kind of WOT and performance are you getting


Tommays

 

[angler53]

Re: Yamaha F150 Durability/Reliability

The first engine did 5300/5400 WOT and 46 gps. The motor was one hole above being as high as it could be on the transom and turning a 21-M prop.
When Yamaha changed the powerhead the field tech put on a PowerTech 19 pitch prop trying to get the RPM up. That got the RPM up to 6050 and made an improvement in hole shot but I lost speed. He then dropped the motor down as low as it could go and that greatly improved the hole shot, trim response, handling performance and kept the rpm's at 6000. Then I found it loosing oil through the exhaust relief port. He came back to check that and did a leak down compression test and found no anomalies.
He then changed to a Yamaha Saltwater series 19 prop. That brought the speed back up but it dropped the rpm back into the 57-5800 range. I have yet to check the speed with gps but I'll do that next outing. I expect it to be 49-50.
I called him last week to report that it was making oil. He said he wasn't really worried because he felt the rings weren't seated yet. He told me to return it to the dealer to have the oil changed and go run it hard for about three hours.
I ran it two hours last weekend burning 30 to 35 gallons of fuel. I used enough up trim to aid in handling but put a high load on the motor. After a complete warm up I ran the first hour at WOT producing a max of 4500 rpm. I stepped it down to 2500 rpm and ran it about a half hour to cool it down good. I then ran another hour between 4800 and 5800 with it trimmed for best speed without any blow-out. At WOT It did 5800 rpm and 53 mph on the gage. I checked the oil when I got home and found it at the same level it was before going out. Now it's pouring oil, or something out the exhaust port again. I took digital pictures and took a CD to the dealer for record and comment. Where from here, I have no idea.

PS; I know that's a lot more info than ask but it's a complete short order narrative of what is going on.

 

[pine island fred]

Re: Yamaha F150 Durability/Reliability

Allow me to jump in here and ask some knowledgable people on just how an over proped engine can make oil. Why do I ask? My F-115 filled up the crankcase to the top in it first 40 hrs. of operation. In the next 10 hrs. it made 1 qt. Yes it was overproped and either the correct prop or my remembering to turn off the fuel shut off valve seems to have corrected the problem. But how does that happen?
Overproping will result in a high manifold pressure, sure, leading to detonation and a blown piston. But how does raw gas get past the rings especially if it is fuel injected ? During my life I have had all sorts of piston powered vehicales, worn out and new. Only time I have seen a crankcase fill up with gas is when a fuel pump diaphram leaked. The majority of my cars/ trucks have been stick shift and I have always been notorious in lugging an engine to just before it starts pinging. That always been my driving style. Never made oil or burned a piston.
Radial engines even had what was called an oil dilution valve. Before shut down in cold weather, a button was pushed to add gas to the 40W oil so that the engine would turn easier on a cold morming. As the oil heated up the gas would flash off do to the hot oil, no problem. So where does the gas in a 4 stroke come from? Are the rings that poor as to pass that much raw fuel that cant be boiled off? Maby the problem is elsewhere !
My experience is with turbins, different animals, and I have worked with factory manuals that make the outboard factory publications look like comic books. OK, they are supporting a million $ plus engine but at times they dont get it right either. After pages of discription, operation, and troubleshooting, you still find the trouble to be something they never address. This is where your experience that you share with others comes in and actually fixes the problem. I have found that no amount of interrigation of engine control computers or any system computer can match an individuals experience and knowledge for getting things repaired. Agree with me RODBOLT? So where does the gas in the oil come from? Surely someone has found an off the wall fix for this condition that the factories say cant happen. How about sharing it with us.
In my case, I am very suspicious that my gas tank being pressurized when shut down was more of the culprit than the fact that I was over proped. FRED

 

[tommays]

Re: Yamaha F150 Durability/Reliability

Q: Where does the water come from?
A: Three sources. Asmosphere, combustion and fuel. There's always moisture in the air, especially near bodies of water. Some condenses out naturally and collects in the crankcase of a sitting motor. Some comes in right along with the air as it runs. The body of water you're operating on produces a lot of atmospheric water vapor, especially a few feet above the water line ... where the powerhead is. H20 is one of the compounds that forms when gasoline is burned, along with CO, CO2, NOX, etc. Some leaks into the crankcase right along with the other contaminants and mixes into the oil. Alcohol combustion makes mostly CO2 and H2O, so alcohol-blended fuels tend to produce more water vapor than straight gasoline.


From the making oil FAQ



Tommays

 

[mokaction]

Re: Yamaha F150 Durability/Reliability

angler,

please post pictures for us to see.. thx..

 

[angler53]

Re: Yamaha F150 Durability/Reliability

angler,

please post pictures for us to see.. thx..

I sure will. I have them saved on my PC at work. I'll be out of town until Monday and I'll post them early.

 

[pine island fred]

Re: Yamaha F150 Durability/Reliability

FAQ certainly covers water in the oil. Left out a cracked block or bad head gasket which obviously is to simple a problem to list. What about fuel? Can the injectors leak while static? Are the rings that poor to allow raw fuel to migrate into the crankcase? Got to come from somewhere, someone has had to encounter this problem! Anybody with any experience in this happening? FRED

 

[rodbolt]

Re: Yamaha F150 Durability/Reliability

fred fred fred
even tough ya bought me a couple beers , I thought I said someting about over propping an EFI outboard.
maybe I did not,if not it was your fault .
heck, a tech that can smile when it all goes wrong already knows who he his gonna blame .
anyway this may get long and typoed, left the Blue crab a bit ago and leave for venezuela in the am.
carbed motors rely strictly on engine vacum to move fuel, lug them and engine vacum rises.
auto engines rarly have water cooled oil sumps.
EFI on the other hand wont compensate well for engine lugging.
they tend to spray fuel reguardless of whether or not it can actually be burned.
and with a 4 stroke outboard its very possible to lug it at midrange yet still be able to turn up to its operating range.
4stroke outboards do NOT like to be babied. they like to run above the 4200 RPM range or they are just not happy.
only complaint I have with my 07 F150 is the occasinal stumble and stall after extended trolling. oneday I may actually look into it.
or have the master tech do it,but he is a dumbarse .
so far the f150 has been a solid motor, we sell a lot of them.
my 07 175 E-TEC stumbles at about 2800 if ya throttle up slowly, its only annoying when loading on the trailer sometimes.
my 78 9.9 jonny/rude is wonderful, the oars can be even better .
hopefully you have a tech at your dealer that wont quit hunting why.
even if he has to tell you its an opereator error not a machine defect.

 

[pine island fred]

Re: Yamaha F150 Durability/Reliability

RODBOLT, Guess I forgot to mention that on your advice I dropped the pitch down 4 ins. and that corrected the problem. No more extra oil ! Its good to know why this happens and now I have the answer. THANKS. Was a bit intimidated by the local woman sitting by the beer list on the wall, hollering at me when I could not decide on what to drink. Was also impressed by the bar maid checking out who I was and determining if I really belonged there. My kind of place!
Anyway, when you get back from S. america, would really appreciate you telling me again about the YAMAHA overheat sensors. Something about the small channel in the head clogging up reducing flow. I am familiar with 3 different 200 hp., none of them can be fixed. Warning comes on when the throttle is pulled back and pump flow is reduced. Have to be honest, lots of tech. stuff was discussed but I missed a lot and so did my designated driver. Had a good time though, have to do it again and start earlier.
Also something about putting anti seize on the head bolts every 100 hrs. and fresh water flushing after each use? To much for my foggy head to retain. Enjoy your trip and be sure to check in with us when you get back. regards FRED

 

[angler53]

Re: Yamaha F150 Durability/Reliability

I just can't see that my issues are operator problems. I run all my stuff like they were round motor agcat's Fred. Start it up, warm it up, run it 100% until it's time to land and load. I run my stuff hard but I don't abuse it. The only thing I can think I do that may not be good is like when I'm fishing, it's stop-n-go with 10 minute runs between holes.

 

[pine island fred]

Re: Yamaha F150 Durability/Reliability

I my be way out of my league in commenting and should keep my mouth shut, but what the hell, this is just something to think about. Been thinking about the oil leaking out of the exhaust and why its occuring.
OK, just my thoughts. On a worn OVH engine oil will leak past the valve guides into the cyls. to the point of fouling the plugs overnight and cause hard starting. But these engines are mounted vertical, plus this is a new engine so that idea is shot. Well I then think that the oil inside the valve cover has got to drain back into the crankcase thru a hole in the bottom of the head, past a gasket, thru the block into the crankcase. Maby a bad head gasket ? Of course I dont know the set up and there be a seperate tube that bypasses the block and goes directly to the crankcase. If thats the case, forget the bad gasket idea.
Next, somewhere back in my memory I seem to remember RODBOLT mentioning that YAMAHA had a problem with piston rings being incorrectly installed. Dont remember if it was compression or oil control rings but it is a thought. Oil can leak past the rings into the combustion chamber and out an open exhaust valve. This is why you may see on the old war movies a group of guys pulling the props thru. They are making sure the lower cyls. are not full of oil. Same reason they count the prop blades before starting, thru at least 2 revolutions before turning on the ignition.
Defective oil control rings will not show up on a compression test, thats not there job but will show up on oil consumption and smokey exhaust which in our case in under the water so good luck finding that. You say the oil leaks out of the exhaust which tell me the motor is left down when not in use. The cyls. more than likely are pointing down enough to allow any residual oil to collect in them. Try storing the motor with the leg up, then when you drop it notice if any oil drips out.
Hopefull RODBOLT will jump in here when he gets back in town. regards FRED