Your guys' take on the Toyota recalls?

[bruceb58]

Re: Your guys' take on the Toyota recalls?

I have a Lexus GS300. Best car I have ever owned. I would buy another Toyota or any of the cars that are currently under recall in a heartbeat.

 

[zoe'sdad]

Re: Your guys' take on the Toyota recalls?

To be clear, there is nothing wrong with Aisan transmissions. Just pointing out that they are manuafacturer like others that are sourced by many car companies.

 

[ddrieck]

Re: Your guys' take on the Toyota recalls?

Please correct me if I am wrong but isn't there a few "American" cars built in the same car plants as some of the Toyota. Same car built in the same plant but with different trim packages and logo. Haven't heard a thing about the "American" counterpart being recalled for the same issue.

Not Political my aching A**, its all political in one way shape or form.

My .02

 

[windsors03cobra]

Re: Your guys' take on the Toyota recalls?

To be clear, there is nothing wrong with Aisan transmissions. Just pointing out that they are manuafacturer like others that are sourced by many car companies.

Minor detail its actually Aisin.
Aisin Warner AW4, one of my fav. auto trans, used in about a dozen brands back in the day. Joint Venture between Aisin and Borg Warner, durable as heck and long lasting.

 

[LS1_SE7EN]

Re: Your guys' take on the Toyota recalls?

I wonder if the failures in the Yota system are/weere driven by anybody who have ever experienced a failure in ANYTHING while driving, especially something as important as a stuck throttle?

At the risk of fanning the fire,(pun intended) I find the comment on at the very bottom of this report to be telling.

Exactly what I'm trying to get at. These people lack common sense or any simple understanding of what needs to happen in a situation like this.

The last comment definitely says something.

The car was a 2007 Toyota Camery !

The brakes will overcome the acceleration on just about any car out there. No question. Or better yet, bump the gear selector up to "N". Crisis averted, call and have it warrantied. Sure these things catch you off guard but if you freak out and don't do anything to remedy the situation, that would be your fault.

Just my opinion.

 

[tpcowfish]

Re: Your guys' take on the Toyota recalls?

Bound to happen sooner or later, No ones perfect, not even Japanese auto-makers. After a while , money gets to everyone, Want to be #1, want to make more than anyone else. Ive heard good, and bad from all Auto-makers owners, Including Toyota. Lets just hope a lot of people dont get hurt, and everything else will resolve itself, one way ,or the other

 

[thrillhouse700]

Re: Your guys' take on the Toyota recalls?

Exactly what I'm trying to get at. These people lack common sense or any simple understanding of what needs to happen in a situation like this.

The last comment definitely says something.



The brakes will overcome the acceleration on just about any car out there. No question. Or better yet, bump the gear selector up to "N". Crisis averted, call and have it warrantied. Sure these things catch you off guard but if you freak out and don't do anything to remedy the situation, that would be your fault.

Just my opinion.

I agree to a point, but from a liability stand point it would never fly. Unreliable is unreliable no matter how dense the person behind the wheel is. No court on the planet would say you should have thought more clearly while your car was accelerating into traffic by its self.

I have had a brake by wire system fail on me during a test drive, scared the holy hell out of me. You don't know how hard it is to think in that situation until it happens to you.

Also a lot of cars I worked on had throttle cut down when the brakes and gas were pressed at the same time.

These auto manufacturers are supposed to be road testing the heck out of these cars and fixing these problems. If the issue came up on that many cars I can't imagine they just missed it but who knows, crazier things have happened.

Although I can see how it would happen, the manufacturer I used to work for would road test the new cars for hundreds of thousands of miles. They would then take them back and see what issues arose. Problem is on some models the engineers did not release any wiring diagrams, so how is one supposed to fix a problem when there is hundreds of miles of wiring harness?

 

[QC]

Re: Your guys' take on the Toyota recalls?

You guys realize that to insure that there would be no failures of any component ever, and that every single issue was followed up on with 100% efficiency, and to insure that all of your suppliers lived up to these same standards that each car would be over $1M a copy right? Give or take $500K . . . Oh, wait, you need to throw in a personal, professional operator, so there would be an ongoing cost of $100K a year on each too. That ought to do it.

 

[j_martin]

Re: Your guys' take on the Toyota recalls?

I think it has already been done- The Big Snowstorm in Washington DC!

Hell Freezing Over?

Oh wait, maybe that's a political comment.

Couple of thoughts. I hauled tons of freight on early 50's trucks whose perfectly working brakes weren't near as good as failing brakes on a modern vehicle. It would take both feet on the pedal and bend the steering wheel out of shape to lock them up, if the hydraulics didn't just blow in the meantine and leave you with the squished grape feeling under your feet. I never hit anybody that didn't deserve it. (one idiot cut hard left in front of me on ice and spun out.) I kept it under control with caution, common sense, and gears.

Also, there is an entitlement mentality in this country that is totally foriegn to most of us old timers. If I were driving a car and the throttle seemed sticky, I'd take it back to the dealer. If he refused to fix it, then I'd dress him down a bit. If he still refused, and I got hurt, then maybe he has some skin in the game. Until then, it's my common sense that's supposed to guard me.

So go figure.
John

 

[redfury]

Re: Your guys' take on the Toyota recalls?

I recall a throttle issue years ago with a certain German car company ( audi ) causing drivers to lurch forward or go when they didn't want to.

Look at any car manufacturer out there, they all have recalls and TSRB's of some sort or manner. They try to use as many of the same parts in as many different vehicles as they can to keep costs down. When you do that, you can't engineer out every possible unforseen problem that may arise from doing such a thing, much less do it for proprietary parts.

The fact is, Toyota is taking care of the issue, there aren't Toyota's screaming down the highways out of control all over the place.

How many owners won't ever make it to the dealership to get the fix in the first place?

 

[marlboro180]

Re: Your guys' take on the Toyota recalls?

Hell Freezing Over?

Oh wait, maybe that's a political comment.

Couple of thoughts. I hauled tons of freight on early 50's trucks whose perfectly working brakes weren't near as good as failing brakes on a modern vehicle. It would take both feet on the pedal and bend the steering wheel out of shape to lock them up, if the hydraulics didn't just blow in the meantine and leave you with the squished grape feeling under your feet. I never hit anybody that didn't deserve it. (one idiot cut hard left in front of me on ice and spun out.) I kept it under control with caution, common sense, and gears.

Also, there is an entitlement mentality in this country that is totally foriegn to most of us old timers. If I were driving a car and the throttle seemed sticky, I'd take it back to the dealer. If he refused to fix it, then I'd dress him down a bit. If he still refused, and I got hurt, then maybe he has some skin in the game. Until then, it's my common sense that's supposed to guard me.

So go figure.
John

What he said ^^^^^ common sense.BUT, Turn the ignition back 1 click.

 

[tx1961whaler]

Re: Your guys' take on the Toyota recalls?

This recall is costing Toyota 2 Billion dollars. THey're taking it seriously

 

[cheburashka]

Re: Your guys' take on the Toyota recalls?

I recall a throttle issue years ago with a certain German car company ( audi ) causing drivers to lurch forward or go when they didn't want to.

What I've been told about that one is that it wasn't really a mechanical problem. It was a design error. The accelerator and the brake pedal looked exactly the same and were very close to one another. It was far too easy to punch the gas, thinking you were punching the brake.

I've owned enough British and German cars that the idea of brake by wire scares the hell out of me, and throttle by wire is only slightly less scary. Electronic systems break.

Of course, when I was younger and had no family, I had cars with accelerator cables so corroded that they tended to stick at inopportune moments. I'd drive with my shoes off to pull the pedal back when it stuck.

On the topic of coping with disasters like these, I have to say I don't buy it. If your car starts moving forward when you don't want it to, it's going to take quite a while to get through the several stages of panic to the logical idea of turning off the ignition or popping it into neutral. Most people who drive automatics don't even associate the gearshift lever with having any effect on the drive train aside from holding the car in place when it's in park.

My favorite story about panic of this type comes from a guy I worked with in the '70s who had a job parking cars in a basement garage/shop. He was pulling a '56 T-bird into the garage and the brakes felt spongy. He tried to punch them hard, and hit the accelerator instead. That cause him to ram the back of a GTO, which hit a truck with the engine halfway out, causing major damage to all three vehicles and the overhead crane system they had for pulling engines. Also destroyed most of the light fixtures.

He said his boss came up to the window of the wrecked T-bird and said in a very calm voice: "You can go home now."

 

[scoutabout]

Re: Your guys' take on the Toyota recalls?

This recall is costing Toyota 2 Billion dollars. THey're taking it seriously

Add a zero...and then some. As of Friday the company's stock has been devalued by about 30 billion - or about 20 percent of the entire corporate value. I agree though - there's no way they are not taking it seriously now.

Part of that problem is public perception of their response. When the president doesn't do a news conference for two weeks, that's going to hurt. Plus you get the media watching every move for mistakes. For instance, the local morning tv news show reportedly breathlessly this week that the president was seen leaving an industry function recently in an Audi....(gasp!). Head shaking and clucking by the anchors all round. It's obvious it's a company used to letting their products speak for themselves and maybe has not enough PR savvy.

From a design and production point of view they certainly have been burned by the fact that being number one in sales was allowed to eclipse not so much their stated commitment to quality but the realities of managing relationships with suppliers that are thousands of miles away from Toyota City in Japan versus those in the area itself. It's hard enough changing your own corporate culture, never mind that of a supplier you know only through contracts, email, and a couple of annual visits.

Joint ventures like the Toyata Matrix / Pontiac Vibe lines present their own challenges as well.

I'm hoping Toyota gets over this, pays their dues to those it needs to compensate and moves on - I think it's a terrific company on the whole and I'd buy their products in a heartbeat.

 

[cheburashka]

Re: Your guys' take on the Toyota recalls?

If I were a gambling man, I'd say right now is the perfect time to buy up as much Toyota stock as you can. They'll be back with a vengeance.

 

[Tim Frank]

Re: Your guys' take on the Toyota recalls?

The part they Id'd as the problem was built by a subcontractor in Canada. Wouldn't suprise me if that pedal mechanism is used on other brand vehicles too.

The part supplier is CTS, based in Indiana. We have 10 provinces and 2 territories...Indiana is not among 'em.

Wasn't bashing Canada, just trying to point out that ....

Maybe not, but you certainly posted erroneous info that points in the wrong direction.

 

[cheburashka]

Re: Your guys' take on the Toyota recalls?

Ouch. So it's one of the American-made parts that's to blame? Can we blame it on outsourcing? Maybe it was actually made in China, like everything else in the world.

 

[KeyWestSkipper]

Re: Your guys' take on the Toyota recalls?

American-based company with auto manufacturing divisions all over, including Canada. I thought this press release from 2004 was interesting, regards CTS scoring a deal with an unnamed Japanese auto maker to supply ETC accelerator pedal modules (used a link shortener hence the strange URL)

http://bit.ly/dwGlve

Is anyone convinced one way or the other that they've identified the problem(s) or haven't identified it and are scrambling? Toyota seems to have squandered a lot of time and timeliness in getting out in front of this story.

I'm no engineer or mechanic, and this may not even be the issue with those cars, but I wonder what the technical pros/cons and wisdom of throttle by cable vs throttle by wire are. I sure liked the feel and feedback and immediacy from a cable systems on my old cars. I sure dont like the idea of a pedal that simply trims a pot. But like I said, I'm no mechanic. In fact my nickname is Mr Badwrench so that should give you some idea of my prowess.

 

[scoutabout]

Re: Your guys' take on the Toyota recalls?

...I wonder what the technical pros/cons and wisdom of throttle by cable vs throttle by wire are. ....

Well, Airbus may have bent some metal and killed a few people working the kinks out...

 

[QC]

Re: Your guys' take on the Toyota recalls?

With electronic engine controls the throttle (accelerator pedal) position has to be turned into a signal somewhere. Best to eliminate anything mechanical actually if you are ultimately using an electronic signal. Why introduce the possibility of a mechnical failure of a cable or pulley or linkage etc. if you don't actually push/pull something? The throttle itself (in the intake stream) is motor controlled, the fuel signal is digital etc. annnnnd, if you don't like that, then find another planet to sell your stuff because you aren't going to get a mechanical anything to meet today's emission and safety standards . . .