Your Outboard may next on the "Agenda"

[Ralph 123]

Re: Your Outboard may next on the "Agenda"

PW,<br />You really have to start checking your facts a little better:<br /><br />

Every civilized country in the world that has gun control has dramatically fewer gun deaths than the US. Like I said, Canada, the last I saw, had something like 165 per year, and the US had over 11,000 in the same time frame. Canada has approximately 10% of the population of the US. Other European countries are even fewer

http://www.sfu.ca/~mauser/papers/forum/FF-gundeaths.pdf <br /><br />

In 1999, for example, there were 1,006 “gun deaths” in Canada..

Gun Deaths per capita <br /><br />Canada 31.9 deaths per million people<br />US 112.2 deaths per million people

 

[mellowyellow]

Re: Your Outboard may next on the "Agenda"

now the only people in Toronto who have handguns<br />are the criminals? I know Toronto is a major<br />city, but they have an aweful lot of murders,<br />lot's resulting from handguns. only people who<br />are law abiding turned their guns in...

 

[plywoody]

Re: Your Outboard may next on the "Agenda"

Ok. According to that article, of the 1000 or so gun deaths, 804 were suicides.<br />So my approximate number of 165 involved in "homicides" as opposed to suicides is in the ballpark.<br /><br />And this article claims that the Firearm registry introduced in 1997 or so will not reduce this number. I absolutely agree. It is what I said in one of my original posts re Canada. It is a huge bureaucratic overkill that is wildly expensive with little benefit. And targets for the most part law-abiding sportsmen, as opposed to criminals.<br /><br />I would hate to see the US go in the same direction as this.<br /><br />My point is that this is what you can expect to happen if sportmen generally and the NRA specifically do not change their tack, and work to be a part of the solution, rather than be percieved as a part of the problem.<br /><br />To the people that wrote and passed Canada's firearm registry, a gun is a gun is a gun, and they don't differentiate one type from another.<br /><br />Hey I could be wrong, and I expect that the NRA won't change, so we will probably find out soon enough.

 

[braindead0]

Re: Your Outboard may next on the "Agenda"

Just a side note, in several European countries (Finland for example) it is considered inpolite to not have a silencer on your firearm. Target shooters, tactical shooter and hunters in many areas are required to have a silencer.<br /><br />Yet here in the 'land of the free' I have to pay a special 'Tax' for the privilege of owning a silencer.

 

[SoulWinner]

Re: Your Outboard may next on the "Agenda"

MellwoYellow,<br /><br />Well Said, and so true.

 

[LadyFish]

Re: Your Outboard may next on the "Agenda"

Our 2nd Amendment "right to bear arms" is somewhat safe <br />since 3/4 of the states are needed for <br />ratification of an amendment. 38 states.<br /><br />I think it'll be awhile before 38 states agree on anything.<br />Our gun rights won't change anytime soon.

 

[braindead0]

Re: Your Outboard may next on the "Agenda"

Problem is that the 2nd gets 're-interpreted' all the time. Thus the GCA, AWB..etc...<br /><br />Oh, and once we let the Fed's call just about anything "Interstate commerce" we allowed them to tax it which is just another form of control (Silencer, short shotguns..etc).

 

[NOSLEEP]

Re: Your Outboard may next on the "Agenda"

We haven't turned in our hand guns here yet. No<br />need too. although we are required to either<br />challenge the restricted weapons test and of<br />course pass it. Or take the restricted weapons<br />course. The test was $20.00 and I believe it still<br />is.Prohibited weapons are another matter though.<br />One must have a P.A.L for non-restricted Long guns<br />as well.

 

[pbailey]

Re: Your Outboard may next on the "Agenda"

plywoody<br /><br />"There is no sporting reason to have fully automatic assault rifles, or teflon coated "cop-killer" bullets, and such."<br /><br />Sporting and hunting has nothing to do with why gun ownership was considered and provided for in the Constitution. If you don't understand that then you will never get it.<br /><br />Violent crime has nothing to do with gun ownership and everybody knows it. <br /><br />It's because this country has become a place where individuals are not held responsible for their actions. <br /><br />I can remember the day it happened for me. I went on summer break from school and when I returned, the no smoking on campus rule was lifted. They even gave people a place to smoke. All of a sudden you didn't have to go to class anymore. No one called home anymore when you didn't show up. And the list goes on. This was in 1971. <br /><br />These things seam slight when talking about people killing each other. <br /><br />But it has become apparent to me that the lack of discipline and respect for others is the reason for crime. It's not because you have access to a gun.<br /><br />pbailey

 

[Ralph 123]

Re: Your Outboard may next on the "Agenda"

LadyFish,<br /><br />The problem is that the judiciary is legislating from the bench in a wholey unchecked manner and are making law as the go. Nothing is safe until we get the judiciary back under control and restore the proper checks and balances.

 

[plywoody]

Re: Your Outboard may next on the "Agenda"

There are so many various restrictions in so many different communities now, that have not been overturned by any court, that the constitutional issue has been pretty well decided at this point in time. there are enough relatively conservative courts that have not overturned these laws, and enough precedent, that it would take a pretty radical court to overturn that.<br /><br />A constitutional amendment is not required. It has already been decided.

 

[DJ]

Re: Your Outboard may next on the "Agenda"

Plywoody,<br /><br />You wrote.<br /><br />"It's because this country has become a place where individuals are not held responsible for their actions"<br /><br />I agree completely.<br /><br />I also agree with your statements regarding gun ownership and the hunting issue. Hunting is not what was meant in the constitution. The right to bear arms portion was adressing the ability to keep government in check.

 

[plywoody]

Re: Your Outboard may next on the "Agenda"

Hmmm.. I don't recall saying that, and I am not sure I agree with it. There are some instances where people are not held accountable when they should be, to be sure, but there are lots of areas where they are, as they should.<br />And there are at times grey areas where it is difficult to determine how much responsibility should be placed where.<br />But to make a blanket statement that we are no longer responsible for our actions is questionable.<br /><br />Perhaps it depends on how much money we can afford to pay lawyers.