Your Outboard may next on the "Agenda"

JGREGORY

Lieutenant
Joined
Jun 1, 2003
Messages
1,412
Re: Your Outboard may next on the "Agenda"

Plywoody,<br /><br />I have one problem with your statement.<br />
but we register and hold vehicle owners responsible for the use of their vehicles, and no one is worried about anyone banning them, and it seems to me we could come up with some solution so that legitimate sporting and target arms can be enjoyed while having some common sense regulations that limit or eliminate some weapons with no rational sporting use. At the least, some sort of certification required for ownership and sale of these guns.<br />
There are no lobby groups out there trying to ban your vehicle. There are a lot of lobby groups out there trying to ban firearms of any type. Once you are required to register them if for some reason there is to be a second American revolution, the gov't will be able to quickly seize all registered weapons, end of Revolution. <br /><br />When the voting booths fail where do the people go and what recourse is available. :confused:
 

Carphunter

Commander
Joined
Aug 11, 2002
Messages
2,061
Re: Your Outboard may next on the "Agenda"

So, because I own a weapon that can kill a person, it is automatically classified as a people killer?! My SKS is considered an assault rifle, (this is the sort of weapon that you would call a "people killer"), yet my 7mm Rem. Magnum would be much more efficent because of its long range capabilities, but for the same reason, it makes an excellent Big game rifle. In the wrong hands, either weapon could do serious damage to a human. ANY gun could kill a person, so in reality, they could all be classified as "people killers". Where does it stop? Who sets the limits? Who's perspective do we use to classify weapons? After these weapons are classified, I will be able to defend myself with a BB gun, while some criminal is breaking into my house with an AK47, because he really doesn't care if he's breaking the law. See my point. <br />You could kill a person with a baseball bat, does that mean we should ban baseball? <br />Its like the idiots that tried to sue the gun manufactures after someone was shot with a gun that they made. How about going after the idiot that fired the gun? If someone kills me in an auto accident, should my wife sue the manufacturer of the vehicle that killed me?<br /><br />These "criminals" are the problem, NOT the weapons that they weild.<br /><br />BTW, you hit the nail right on the head jgregory, good job.
 

Ralph 123

Captain
Joined
Jun 24, 2003
Messages
3,983
Re: Your Outboard may next on the "Agenda"

Well here in MA it is almost impossible to own a rifle and a handgun takes an act of God. <br /><br />To own a handgun your chief of police has to approve it, you need to complete training and often times you need some sort of sponsorship. They very rarely give their permission.<br /><br />If you get caught with an unlicensed handgun it is an automatic one year in jail - no judicial discretion. <br /><br />Believe it or not, the only place I know where you can get any sort of gun related items is Wally World.<br /><br />I haven't looked at the per capita stats so I can't say if MA is a safer place as a result.
 

KennyKenCan

Commander
Joined
Aug 26, 2002
Messages
2,501
Re: Your Outboard may next on the "Agenda"

Well, if we are going to outlaw guns, then we had better ban butter knives and knitting needles as well, because they are just as deadly.<br /><br />Same goes for pencils and pens, scissors, tire irons, chop sticks, and plastic coffee stirerers, along with rocks, as these items are just as deadly, laying there on the ground or on your desk, as a hand gun laying on the ground or on your desk.<br /><br />Its not until the wrong person picks-up any of the above mentioned items, and uses them to kill someone.<br /><br />These items didn't kill anyone...people kill people.<br /><br />So why not have a law outlawing all those above mentioned item too?<br /><br />Oh by the way, maybe we should impose a breathing tax upon all Americans, just because they do!<br /><br />Kenny
 

plywoody

Senior Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Aug 11, 2002
Messages
685
Re: Your Outboard may next on the "Agenda"

I love that second American revolution argument! So your gun, whatever it may be, is going to go up against an Abraham's tank?<br />Get real.<br /><br />And clearly, with various states having different laws restricting, in one way or another, guns, the constitutional argument does not hold either.<br /><br />And which lobby group is trying to outlaw guns? Frankly, I would be much more sympathetic to the NRA, the truly powerful gun lobby, if they weren't so irrational and emotional.<br /><br />Hunting is a large part of this culture, and an important part of wildlife management as well. It is important that hunting is maintained, and sporting rifles and shotguns are rarely the weapons involved in crimes. Anyone wanting to ban them is foolish. Even handguns, in the hands of responsible people, are not a huge problem.<br /><br />The NRA could work together to protect the ownership rights of sporting guns to citizens, while also working toward reducing unnecessary gun deaths. They are not doing that, and chosing a more radical stance.<br /><br />The irony is that at some point in time, Americans are going to get fed up with all of the crime and death associated with firearms, are going to view the NRA as the enemy, and ultimately defeat them, and then you will have urban voters who have never hunted or owned a gun deciding which guns are acceptable and which are not.
 

Ralph 123

Captain
Joined
Jun 24, 2003
Messages
3,983
Re: Your Outboard may next on the "Agenda"

I love that second American revolution argument! So your gun, whatever it may be, is going to go up against an Abraham's tank?<br />Get real.<br />
You're assuming the guys in the M1A1 are on the government's side and not the side of the people. The Commies in the USSR found that one out the hard way.<br /><br />
And which lobby group is trying to outlaw guns?
The radical left. Come to MA I will introduce you to many of them.<br /><br />
Hunting is a large part of this culture, and an important part of wildlife management as well. It is important that hunting is maintained, and sporting rifles and shotguns are rarely the weapons involved in crimes. Anyone wanting to ban them is foolish. Even handguns, in the hands of responsible people, are not a huge problem.<br />
This is where you part company from many people you otherwise agree with.<br /><br />
The irony is that at some point in time, Americans are going to get fed up with all of the crime and death associated with firearms, are going to view the NRA as the enemy, and ultimately defeat them, and then you will have urban voters who have never hunted or owned a gun deciding which guns are acceptable and which are not.
This is already the case in most of the North East. But you can blame the NRA for gun violence. They are just fighting any moves down the slippery slope.
 

plywoody

Senior Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Aug 11, 2002
Messages
685
Re: Your Outboard may next on the "Agenda"

Ok, I'll go along with that. Whoever in the tank is going to win. Your gun will have nothing whatever to do with it.<br /><br />And I never said the NRA was specifically responsible for any gun deaths. Unregulated guns in the hands of people that ought not to have them, and generally in urban areas, are responsible.<br /><br />What the NRA *should* do, in my opinion, is to be percieved as part of the solution, and not part of the problem. Their insistence on freewheeling gun selling and buying will ultimately be the death of them, in my opinion.<br /><br />Urban, not hunting, non-gun owning people will someday get fed up with all the violence and stop them. The NRA is working counter-productive to their own purposes by being just as radical on the other side.<br /><br />That is my opinion, and as you stated, it is already happening in some areas.
 

Carphunter

Commander
Joined
Aug 11, 2002
Messages
2,061
Re: Your Outboard may next on the "Agenda"

Hmmm.....<br /><br />So Plywoody, you believe the NRA should be enforcing laws that reduce gun deaths? I thought that was a Policeman's job. Sounds like someone else trying to make the NRA the scapegoat.<br /><br />Amazing how the real problem is ignored by people like you. I got it..... every time there is a crime with a gun, lets throw that particular gun away, and let the criminal walk who committed the crime. Sound good? Lets don't hold these people accountable, which is the real problem. People are so focused on HOW the crime was committed that they forget to focus on WHO committed it.<br /><br />The real irony is that all of the gun owners, and NRA members and supporters, are going to get fed up with these idiotic attempts to disarm the American people, and they will rise up and defeat them. Then you will have voters who own guns and hunt deciding the fate of our firearms.<br />Question is, what side of the fence will you be on when this happens?<br /><br />I will leave further comments in the very capable hands of Ralph and Kenny. Thanks guys.
 

Ralph 123

Captain
Joined
Jun 24, 2003
Messages
3,983
Re: Your Outboard may next on the "Agenda"

What the NRA *should* do, in my opinion, is to be percieved as part of the solution, and not part of the problem. Their insistence on freewheeling gun selling and buying will ultimately be the death of them, in my opinion.
They are afraid that any move in that direction will lead to a complete ban. They are afraid of treading on the slippery slope at all.<br /><br />You only have to come to the NE to see what they are afraid will happen
 

samagee

Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Aug 7, 2003
Messages
644
Re: Your Outboard may next on the "Agenda"

Plywood. About your comment on the Sherrif who's kid shot the other one. The only reason he didn't have any action taken against him, is because he is the sherrif. Had it been a deputy or local city police officer, there would have been problems for the officer. The officer would have been investigated. They are trained on proper gun storage, and handling. If the police can't take their fire arms seriously, how can they expect the public to? I know many departments who's police chief would be breathing down the officers neck about it. Would you want to ride with someone who couldn't tell you where their gun was?<br /><br />I keep my gun behind locked doors and often with the triger lock on. I had removed the triger lock after the wife ended up with a stalker. I now keep it behind locked doors. I also have all my other weapons in the bed room. She and I are the only ones that really know what is where in the bed room. Other than my oldest son's swords. He knows where I keep those put up in my room.<br /><br />I am a real pain in the butt if I see anything out of place in the house. Especially if the bedroom door isn't locked when I come home from work.<br /><br />I feel that we have the right to have fire arms, however we also have GREAT responsibility in the use of those fire arms. It is something I take very seriously, and I feel that should be instilled in every person who owns a fire arm. My best friend, who is a police officer and the Sargent at arms for his department, knows better than to hand me a loaded gun at the fireing range. I am very pissy about things like that.<br /><br />I have no problem with those who don't want to own a fire arm. However, I don't want to hear them trying to tell me I should not. And I don't want to hear them whinning about being a victim. They chose to do nothing, so they have no right to say anything.<br /><br />I heard some lady on the metro bus here talking about how bad a Glock is. I turned to her and said, how do you accidently shoot someone with a Glock? It doesn't have a hair pin trigger. You have to pull the trigger back half way just to disengage the safety. Then, if the gun isn't held right when it fires, it jams. So they are only going to get one shot off any way, if they are dumb enough to squeeze the trigger that hard. She just gave me a look and shut up. I own a Glock 17. I see the trouble my wife and step daughter has firing it because she doesn't stiffin the wrist enough. We are currently shopping for a different fire arm for her.
 

KennyKenCan

Commander
Joined
Aug 26, 2002
Messages
2,501
Re: Your Outboard may next on the "Agenda"

The real reason we see these librals trying to take away our rights to keep and bear arms is that they personally don't like them, so they feel that no one should be allowed to own them.<br /><br />Guns don't kill people, people kill people!<br /><br />Maybe if they put gun safety back in the classroom there wouldn't be as many accidental shootings!<br /><br />Would accidental shooting stop with education, NO, but they would not be so numerous.<br /><br />When I went to High School we had a shooting club.<br /><br />For no reason other than preasure from the librals, the gun club was disbanded and gun safety is no longer taught!<br /><br />There are kids who would love to be able to participate in the shooting sports, but are unable to persue their Constitutional rights, because the librals said they can't!<br /><br />My brother competes competively for the State of New York in the Empire Games, and represents New York State at the NRA Nationals.<br /><br />2 years ago he won 2 gold medals in International Air Pistol, and on the NRA Hard Ball Match, yet when the newspapers posted the complete results of the Empire Games, the only sport that did not get reported were the shooting sports.<br /><br />3 years ago, when he placed 2nd in the country, at the NRA National Matches at Camp Perry, Ohio, my Mom tryed to place his results in the local paper, the newspaper hung-up on her, stating "Why would we want to report that"!<br /><br />But that same paper did a full-page article about a dog from Berlin, Germany, that ran the NYC Marathon, that placed last in the canine division!<br /><br />The paper was more concered about a dog from Germany, than a resident of its own community.<br /><br />Go figure?!?<br /><br />Kenny
 

Specks n Reds

Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Jun 3, 2003
Messages
465
Re: Your Outboard may next on the "Agenda"

CHICAGO, Illinois (CNN) -- A disgruntled worked killed six people and possibly himself during a shooting rampage in a Chicago warehouse Wednesday morning, authorities said. <br /><br /> http://www.cnn.com/2003/US/Midwest/08/27/chicago.shooting/index.html <br /><br />How could this happen guns are illegal Chicago.<br /><br />Chicago gun laws do so much to protect everybody. Makes you feel so safe knowing that the politicians are taking care of everybody by keeping them evil guns out of the hands of civilians
 

ratltrap

Petty Officer 3rd Class
Joined
May 5, 2002
Messages
81
Re: Your Outboard may next on the "Agenda"

If the U.S. is successful in banning guns from the law abiding citizens(they won't take them from the criminals),and after confiscating said guns,how long would it be before hmmmm...let's say... CHINA,unleashes its 2-4 million(not sure of exact #) man standing army on us to try to overtake and destroy us?<br /><br />Is this question to radical? Or is it in the realm of possibility?<br /><br />Is there anybodyelse that thinks that this might happen if a TOTAL gun ban were to happen in this country?<br /><br />What other countries would possibly join forces with China to help destroy the U.S.?<br /><br />Lots more ?'s and possibilities that could be asked,but these will suffice for now.<br /><br />Just my ever questioning and curious mind @ work.To learn,one must ask questions.And,as they say, NEVER stop learning.<br /><br />Sorry,but I just gotta put this one in here to-<br />If so many other countries have had gun bans,then why have they not been attacked?--Is this because of the fact that the U.S. is the current lone superpower of the world and anyone that would try to attack one of these little countries knows they would get there tail kicked severly?<br /><br />These may be off the wall ?'s,but just curious to see what ya'll think?
 

jimchere

Petty Officer 1st Class
Joined
Jun 30, 2003
Messages
321
Re: Your Outboard may next on the "Agenda"

"love that second American revolution argument! So your gun, whatever it may be, is going to go up against an Abraham's tank?<br />Get real."<br />I hope that name of the tank you stated was a semantics error. Its ABRAMS tank...and it's easy to figure out who that was named after, and it has nothing to do with the "religious right."
 

jimchere

Petty Officer 1st Class
Joined
Jun 30, 2003
Messages
321
Re: Your Outboard may next on the "Agenda"

Oh, I forgot one, off the subject, to add to RatlTrap above. How many of you know that on Sept 10, 2001, the Chinese government had an official delegation from Beijing in Kabul, Afghanistan. The mission of that delegation was to further political/military (oft referred to as "pol-mil") relations with the Taliban.
 

Ralph 123

Captain
Joined
Jun 24, 2003
Messages
3,983
Re: Your Outboard may next on the "Agenda"

Maybe we should "accidentally" bomb another one of their embassies.... oops! so sorry, guidence system problem I guess :D :D
 

plywoody

Senior Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Aug 11, 2002
Messages
685
Re: Your Outboard may next on the "Agenda"

Hey, I have nothing against the responsible ownership of guns. I own several myself, take care of them, and feel confident they will never be involved in any sort of crime, and I would hate to have someone tell me I could not own them.<br /><br />And, no, the NRA is not any sort of enforcement agency. You guys get so emotional and irrational over this issue, you cannot see what is going on, IMO.<br /><br />First, statistics tell us that gun control can and does work, regardless of the mantra that if "Guns are outlawed, only outlaws will have guns".<br /><br />Every civilized country in the world that has gun control has dramatically fewer gun deaths than the US. Like I said, Canada, the last I saw, had something like 165 per year, and the US had over 11,000 in the same time frame. Canada has approximately 10% of the population of the US. Other European countries are even fewer.<br /><br />It seems clear to me the constitutional argument does not hold water, as there are lots of specific restrictions in various communities, and the NRA clearly would have filed suit in Federal court, and the Supreme court would have ruled on it, if there was a serious constitutional question about it.<br /><br />I would also bet that the average sporting rifle and shotgun owned by the average sportsman is almost never involved in crime, and that the guns that are typically involved in crime are identifiable, and potentially controllable as are the gun manufacturers and shops and such that sell them.<br /><br />I used to be, years ago, a member of the NRA, and if they were effectively working to protect my right to own a sporting gun, I probably still would be a member. (Didn't Bush Sr. renounce his membership as well? I seem to remember he did)<br /><br />It seems to me, with their no tolerance of any regulation stand, the NRA are working harder for the criminal element than they are for any sporting element.<br /><br />At some point in time, in this increasingly urban country, Americans are going to get fed up with the violence, when it is clear that other countries have been successful in their efforts.<br /><br />To most of these urban voters, a gun is a gun is a gun, and they don't care about your sporting arm. In my opinion, the government authorities and the NRA knows how to go about how to limit the guns in the hands of people that should not have them, but the NRA has chosen to ignore this tack on the "slippery slope" argument. <br /><br />Eventually this will lead them to the edge of a cliff, and that is unfortunate, and not necessary, in my opinion.<br /><br />And yes, I am guilty of not knowing how to spell Abrams as in the tank. I offer my humble apologies.
 

aspeck

Moderator
Staff member
Joined
May 29, 2003
Messages
19,254
Re: Your Outboard may next on the "Agenda"

UH-OH! I have to admit that I am closer in line with Plywoody on this issue. I own about 35 guns (not quite sure what the exact count is at present)- handguns, shotguns, rifles - and I love to hunt and shoot. But I do think the NRA is doing us a dis-service with their hard line stance. No, I don't want to give up any of my guns, and I really don't want to register any of them, but if we don't find a solution to the problem of keeping autos out of the hands of criminals, we are all going to be in trouble.<br /><br />I would really like to hear Bubba's (and other law enforcement officers) take on this issue. It is their lives that are on the line everyday. What do they really think about it?
 

Specks n Reds

Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Jun 3, 2003
Messages
465
Re: Your Outboard may next on the "Agenda"

First, statistics tell us that gun control can and does work, regardless of the mantra that if "Guns are outlawed, only outlaws will have guns".<br /><br />Every civilized country in the world that has gun control has dramatically fewer gun deaths than the US
Check this out out Plywoody then rethink your uninformed statement<br /><br /> http://www.shootingsoftware.com/ftp/crime.txt
 

Ralph 123

Captain
Joined
Jun 24, 2003
Messages
3,983
Re: Your Outboard may next on the "Agenda"

aspeck, first, I love you brother, but come on, you don't know how many guns you own and you're taking issue with the NRA?<br /><br />Think about it...
 
Top