running trouble after a cooling off period.

redneck joe

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Morning folks. Couple questions and a bit of backstory. Try not to be bored reading this novel…


Have had some trouble with the Carver not running well after we make our initial run (cove or lunch / fuel) usually sitting for an hour or so. The initial run is always flawless, usually 5 to 8 miles or so.

It did this a little bit prior to having shop put in electronic ignition but after they got that in it was much worse, to the point where I could barely get going again having to pump the throttle a bunch just to get it to ease up to hull speed without dying. Kind of like if a stator on an outboard was not set correctly. I don’t even attempt to drive on to trailer, just long rope it from the dock.

I have had back to the shop couple times. First time adjust timing. Second time they took it to the lake, ran it, and could not duplicate. I’m thinking they did not let it set long enough but didn't ask – if you sit for 5 to 10 minutes all is ok. We took it out this weekend and it was just as bad, but with a twist however before that side story any thoughts on the poor running? Could it need a carb rebuild? It really bogs down when trying to get going up to a hull speed and have to keep it a bit over no wake to keep it going. Can get on plane but lots of hesitation doing so.



OK now the twist – as we were coming out of the harbor after lunch and it dies so put back in neutral, start it, will not go into forward gear just revs up. Many attempts end up reversing into an open slip. Find the clamp holding the shift cable at the top of the engine has broken (the cable was fortunately hitting the throttle cable when going in reverse so accidentally ‘clamped’ allowing me to get to the slip) Grab some zip ties and it appears there are three possible clamp points. I try the middle one and it will not shift properly – I think fwd ok reverse no so I go to the last possible clamp point (just before the exposed cable) and shifts just fine both ways – actually more smoothly than is was but I digress.

I start it up and it wants to die but it has cooled off a bit (this all took about 30-45 minutes to repair) so I kept revved up to try to get back to ‘normal’ about 180 . Never could get past 160 so we cast off anyway and after a few starts get going, get out of the no wake and try to get up on plane. No go – I can keep it going about maybe 2000 rpm (tach doesn’t work so a guess) and we chug towards the ramp about 5 miles away, motor laboring hard. As we near the ramps no wake zone it all of a sudden revs up to a normal sound but since we are so close I don’t want it to die so we don’t turn around and see if I can get normal performance out of it. Dies as we come into the dock.

I called the shop yesterday and tell him the story he thinks the shift interrupter switch was slightly engaged keeping it bogged down. I’m not an electrical guy by and stretch of the imagination but I thought that switch was either engaged or not. Could have been slightly engaged? And any other thoughts on the issue?
 
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redneck joe

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oh and any help on the part # for the clamp would be great, or alternatives.
 

Bondo

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to the point where I could barely get going again having to pump the throttle a bunch just to get it to ease up to hull speed without dying.

Ayuh,..... That quote sounds like a carb problem,.....

But, with the shift bracket problem, Who knows,..... Maybe, or possibly both,.....
 

alldodge

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Part of me is leaning toward vapor lock but the most is leaning toward a fuel restriction. Have you ever traced the fuel line back to the tank?

Reason I ask the question is there is another guy here with a Carver and was having all kinds of problems with fuel. Started pulling some panels in front of the engines and found another fuel filter (the inline type). Why would a builder put an inline filter in front of a canister type, don't know but sure was a bugger to replace.
 

redneck joe

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Yes i have traced gas line and actually i have pit an inline filter in ahead of the canister type. When i got the boat it sat for 4 years and was getting lots of crud from the tank so i bought 20 cheap inlines and constantly replaced.


Googled vapor lock. Never really knew what it was. It states i should have difficulty restarting, which I do not. It is when i put in gear to go.
 

alldodge

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Only other thing I'm thinking is the carb. Might want to open it up and see what you find
 

nola mike

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Yeah, especially if you had crud in the tank, I'd lean towards the carb. The shift interlock doesn't "partially engage" and wouldn't cause the engine to bog, it would stall it.
 

redneck joe

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But would a carb function well whel started cold and run fine when hot only go bad when cooled a bit? If it is vapor lock how does one confirm and or fix
 

alldodge

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But would a carb function well when started cold and run fine when hot only go bad when cooled a bit? If it is vapor lock how does one confirm and or fix

You have a strange thing going on for sure. I don't see it being electrical, so fuel is about the only other thing since you have no computer. Could be a choke setting, fuel pump or carb. Unable to say for sure.

As for vapor lock and a carb, get it running and try closing the choke down manually a little to see if getting more gas causes it to run better
 

nola mike

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Or try running with your doghouse open--vapor lock is when the fuel lines are too hot, so maybe after your initial run try to air everything out until you restart
 

redneck joe

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Crap on my phone had a nice long post then a phone call apparently wipes it all away.short story is happened again I'm stuck at a different marina waiting on wife to get off work. And its raining buckets. Good news is I just had shrimp and getting ready to order my second beer. More later ...
 
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Ayuh,..... That quote sounds like a carb problem,.....

But, with the shift bracket problem, Who knows,..... Maybe, or possibly both,.....



That's what I'm thinkin... two issues... the shift cable and carb/fuel trouble...

The interruptor switch is open or closed, there's no in between.


The very very first start Cold...... how is it? when it runs good?

Fire up quick or take a while cranking over before it goes then good again?

An inline fuel pressure gauge between the pump and carb will eliminate fuel system issue to the engine...

An Inline spark tester like this one:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...d_i=B0002STS3U

will eliminate the ignition system as the problem.... It goes between the spark plug and it's wire... Great tool for under 15 bucks. Can be used on small engines as well.

I keep them both on the boat....


If both fuel pressure and spark show good.... when you have the issue, then I'd focus on the carb....
 
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redneck joe

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Usually first start is fine, a couple pumps and she?s good to go. Idles fine after 2-3 minutes slightly revved up. Out of the marina no issues, on plane no issues, runs no issues ? only when cooling off.

So this time I did my normal 8 or so mile run the to other marina and it died on the way in (no wake zone). Watching temp during the run all good at 180-185 and of course a spike up to about 195 after coming off plane.

When it died it was about 185. Kept starting (hard) enough to get to the dock. Had lunch and a couple beers, putzed around on the boat doing a little cleaning ? all along the way trying to restart about every 20 degree drop in temp. It would, just rough and not stay at an idle it would only stay running if I revved up to prob 3000 (tach not functioning).

At about 50 degrees it started fine, idled fine ? I took a chance and cut loose from the dock and headed to my home marina. Idled thru no wake just fine, on plane fine, ran back fine, ran a few extra miles fine, then just before the dock it does same thing. On this run I did open the engine cover on the way thru the no wake zone, didn?t seem to do much for the temp but it is a short no wake zone here.

Loaded on trailer with a rope in waist deep water, again.


Took back to mechanic (as I?ve ?paid? to fix this prob already) I?m just trying to be more knowledgeable when speaking with them. He is thinking an electronic piece is getting too hot? It did this to a way lesser extent prior to putting in electronic ignition this year ? I could get it running enough to get away from dock and back to open water. On my other forum somebody mentioned the coil, which is only two years old with maybe 50 hours on it.




Good news is this year the WOT knocking is gone (they adjusted timing for me during de winterization) and with just me I got 37 mph on my phone app so thinking thats pretty good for an old girl. I normally run 22-26 seems to be the best fuel usage.
 

alldodge

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Your first post was leaning me toward fuel and probably the carb, this last post is leaning toward electrical. The thing that really bothers me is your last statement

Good news is this year the WOT knocking is gone (they adjusted timing for me during de winterization) and with just me I got 37 mph on my phone app so thinking thats pretty good for an old girl. I normally run 22-26 seems to be the best fuel usage.

Your engine had preignition going on and your mechanic just now fixes it. I just lost some respect if he knew about the knock and didn't check the timing prior.

Which model of electronic ignition do you have?
 

redneck joe

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I'll find out and yeah there have been more simple probably not checked or fixed once I get all this fixed I'm finding a new shop.
 

redneck joe

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The electronic ignition we installed was made by Ignitor electronic Ignition and the part number is#18-5296-2D.

is there any way it could not be working correctly with the coil? ie are they types that do not play nice together?
 
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redneck joe

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Well wasnt the coil.....




Fuel pump? Carb?



Oh and once I get thru this year ill be findinga new shop.
 

redneck joe

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Forgot to mention this time out i checked both the water fuel seperator and the inline filter the latter i replaced. The inline was not full of fuel i seem to remember it is normally full. I can get it started back up if i pump the heck out of it and rev way up for a few seconds. It then will idle for a few before starting to sputter then dies. So its like its not getting fuel but pumping hard gets fuel to it for a minute or two.
 

alldodge

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You got me back to thinking your not getting enough fuel. Have you replaced the anti-siphon vale and check the fuel pressure?
 

redneck joe

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no sir. Where is the valve and how would one measure pressure? Also, why only after a great run on plane and after it starts cooling, then to be perfectly ok when cool again? That's the variable I do not understand.
 
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