What does the weight limit person, motor, gear all include??

[sutor623]

Hey guys,

Just wondering how much I can actually put on my boat. It is a Sunbird Neptune for the 90's. The transom tag says 1200lbs. persons, motor, gear. The boat came with a 65 gallon tank and an evinrude 130hp with power tilt and trim. So, the engine weighs about 350lbs., start battery is 60lbs and the gas tank filled weighs 520lbs. Thats over 900lbs. right there. That leaves me with 300 lbs of extra capacity. Subtract my #150 lbs, I have 150lbs. of gear and people that I can put on here?

So the question is, is the below deck gas tank that came with the boat considered part of the boat when full, or is the fuel part of said "gear"???

 

[alldodge]

Maybe someone as done more research then I and can confirm, but I understanding is the tag is for weight above what come with the boat to run. Boat gas tank, motor, gas supply and one battery is included as part of the boat. Your 1200 would be for people, gear and other stuff

 

[dingbat]

Inboard and I/o weight rating are for gear and persons.

Outboards weight ratings include motor, fuel, gears and persons.

So yes, you have 300 lbs. with full tank of gas

 

[sutor623]

Wow that seems ridiculous!!! I guess that tank is just too large for the boat. I rarely ever put more than 1/2 tank in it anyways.

 

[alldodge]

Found a site which states the same except no mention of fuel. Guess if it has a built in tank then the weight rating includes tank.
http://www.boatus.org/guide/boat_1.html

 

[sutor623]

Found a site which states the same except no mention of fuel. Guess if it has a built in tank then the weight rating includes tank.
http://www.boatus.org/guide/boat_1.html

I dont know man, from what I have read on numerous sites, the weight of the fuel is NOT factored into the weight of the boat before the tag is put on, meaning that the weight of the fuel is to be subtracted from the maximum weight capacity of the hull. Basically, I trust what dingbat has said. Also, he tends to stay quiet when he has no knowledge on the subject, of just isn't confident in his answer.

 

[sutor623]

Oh, and I made a boo-boo with my math. Fuel is 6lbs. per gallon. Somehow I used 8lbs. per gallon (weight of water) in my math, so really with a full tank it allows me 430lbs. for people and gear. This seems much more reasonable.

Now, it is unfortunate for me that I have a 40 gallon bait tank, that when full weighs in at 350lbs. Add two trolling motor batteries, a trolling motor, a fish finder battery and three guys at 150lbs. and we have a problem. Sounds like I need a bigger boat!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Vintage Rider]

I agree with ALLDODGE's first post, not the second. The weight of the fuel will be a factor in a boats performance but since fuel is lighter than water it will help keep it afloat in case of sinking. I have an inboard tag that states I can safely carry 7 persons and gear up to 1300 lbs. 7 X 150 lbs = 1050 lbs of poeple and 250 allowable lbs of gear. I haven't checked with the Coast Guard but I don't consider fuel to be gear. An outboard I own allows only 4 people totaling 600 lbs which leaves an additional 600 lbs of motor and gear before I reach the 1200 allowable lbs. I don't count battery weight either since it is not something I can take with or leave behind as I can with excess gear.

 

[sutor623]

I agree with some of your points VR, but the tag on the boat says Persons, Motor, Gear 1200lbs. So, I doubt they would factor in battery weight for that figure, vs. an inboard where they do. I think the truly debatable part is the fuel in the below deck tank (as installed by the manufacturer.) I emailed the USCG maritime and they said they didnt have an answer. I also emailed virginia dept of game and inland fisheries and they told me that was best answered by a boat manufacturer. Seems like a lot of grey area on this subject.

Nadaguides uses dry weight with no outboard or anything on board whatsoever to give hull weight. No oil, no batteries, no water, no motor and no fuel. That sheds some light on the matter.

 

[sutor623]

So o talked with the inspector for th USCG this am. He told me that for the stability tests that they use when determining how many people/gear to have on board when the boat has a below deck fuel tank they fill the tank 3/4 full. Any water/waste tanks need to be completely full or completely empty, and they go fr there with their numbers.

He still couldn't give me 100% answer but felt like
It would be ridiculous to have to subtract the weight of the fuel from your permanent tank from the amount of "gear" you can have above deck.

 

[DeepBlue2010]

What is the total length and the beam of your boat?

 

[sutor623]

What is the total length and the beam of your boat?

20' long, 7'8" beam. Boat is 2100lbs dry

 

[dingbat]

Ok, did a little research on the subject.
Direct from the 2003 boat builder's hand book https://www.uscgboating.org/regulati...AFELOADING.pdf

In the outboard category, from the maximum weight capacity in pounds, calculated as in section 6.1 above, we must deduct the weight of the engine and controls, the battery weight (dry) and the weight of a full portable fuel tank. These weights are taken from Table 4 of Subpart H of the regulation, but some explanation is needed.

The "but some explanation is needed" is an interesting remark.....I went to table 4, subpart H of the regulation to take a look. Low and behold, they assigned weights for each of these components for testing purposes. Not actual weights but arbitrary figures

For a 145 to 275 HP outboard powered boat your allowed
motor - #430
battery - #45
full tank of gas - #100 (~16 gallons of fuel)

 

[sutor623]

Very interesting dingbat. i guess i am still confused. According to the first quote fuel weight must be deducted from "gear". And obviously motor must be deducted from the Max weight capacity. So what does that last statement mean? That you are "allowed" x amount of weight for motor battery and fuel......

 

[Vintage Rider]

I don't remember ever seeing a 16 gal portable fuel tank on an outboard. Can I assume that rule doesn't apply if you have an OB with a below deck tank?

 

[dingbat]

Very interesting dingbat. i guess i am still confused. According to the first quote fuel weight must be deducted from "gear". And obviously motor must be deducted from the Max weight capacity. So what does that last statement mean? That you are "allowed" x amount of weight for motor battery and fuel......

It is somewhat confusing because they reference back to the methodology of the calculation used on an I/O where the motor, batteries and "fixed fuel tank" count against the weight of the boat, not the loading.

This all goes back to the test where you load the boat with the "basics", then continue to add weight until water comes over the side of the boat. The amount of weight over and above your "basic" weight before water comes over the side is you passenger and gear load. In the case of the outboard, a fixed tank is included in the "basic" weight. In the case of no fixed tank, a full portable tank is included in the "basic" weight.

Do to a wide range in weights of individual components outfitted in outboards, your supposed to use the weights of the components assigned in the table for test purposes

 

[sutor623]

Oh I just caught the first quote where it said we must deduct the weight of a "portable" fuel tank.

TheUSCG inspector also told me that they like for their fully loaded rigs to have at least 10" of freeboard all around the boat. This does not include scuppers or anything with a check valve in a self bailing cockpit.

 

[sutor623]

It is somewhat confusing because they reference back to the methodology of the calculation used on an I/O where the motor, batteries and "fixed fuel tank" count against the weight of the boat, not the loading.

This all goes back to the test where you load the boat with the "basics", then continue to add weight until water comes over the side of the boat. The amount of weight over and above your "basic" weight before water comes over the side is you passenger and gear load. In the case of the outboard, a fixed tank is included in the "basic" weight. In the case of no fixed tank, a full portable tank is included in the "basic" weight.

Do to a wide range in weights of individual components outfitted in outboards, your supposed to use the weights of the components assigned in the table for test purposes

Ok gotcha. I missed this reply before I put my last reply in.

 

[sutor623]

More interesting info from 1999:
Sec. 183.35?Maximum weight capacity: Outboard boats
(a) The maximum weight capacity marked on a boat that is designed or intended to use one
or more outboard motors for propulsion must be a number that does not exceed one-fifth of the
difference between its maximum displacement and boat weight.
(b) For the purposes of paragraph (a) of this section:

(1) Maximum displacement is the weight of the volume of water displaced by the boat at its maximum level immersion in calm water without water coming aboard except for water coming through one opening in the motor well with its greatest dimension not over 3 inches for outboard motor controls or fuel lines. For the purpose of this paragraph, a boat is level when it is transversely level and when either of the two following conditions are met:

• (i)The forward point where the sheer intersects the vertical centerline plane andtheaft point where the sheer intersects the upper boundary of the transom (stern) areequidistant above the water surface or are equidistant below the water surface.
• (ii) The most forward point of the boat is level with or above the lowest point
  of water ingress.

(2) Boat weight is the combination of:

• (i)Hull weight;
• (ii) Deck and superstructure weight;
• (iii) Weight of permanent appurtenances; and
• (iv) Weight of full permanent fuel tanks.

[CGD 72-61, 37 FR 15782, Aug. 4, 1972, as amended by CGD 73-250, 40 FR 43857, Sept. 23, 1975; CGD 75-176, 42 FR 2681, Jan. 13, 1977; USCG-1999-5832, 64 FR 34716, June 29, 1999

 

[sutor623]

[/LIST] (2) Boat weight is the combination of:

• (i)Hull weight;
• (ii) Deck and superstructure weight;
• (iii) Weight of permanent appurtenances; and
• (iv) Weight of full permanent fuel tanks.

• 
  
  This is what particularly stuck out to me.